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Old 01-01-2010, 10:54 AM #1
wavesport001
 
 
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A New Hypothesis

Ok this question really isn't for non-christians. I'd like to assume in this thread that the Christian god is real and that satan is real. Please debate those claims elsewhere.

I've been thinking about the fall of man story in the light of scientific discoveries lately. It's obvious that viruses and bacteria (the cause of much death and disease in humans and other organisms) existed long before humans existed. That led me to the question: when was the fall of man? How could all death and disease enter the world as a result of Adam's turning away from god if it's obvious that death and disease existed before humans even existed and obviously affected human ancestors (based on retro viral dna insertions).

One of the obvious answers is that god did it and he's all powerful blah blah blah but that wasn't satisfying to me. It bothers me that god would say he created us one way but make it appear that he did it another. Then I had an idea..

What is the garden of eden is not on this planet, but somewhere else, another dimension or another place or anything. It would probably be much closer to god. When Adam disobeyed god then humans had to be sent away from god to a new place, a place ruled by satan. This world is Satan's world, and he has no problem lying to us and misleading us about our true origins. It may well be that all organisms truly did evolve on this planet just as science says, but maybe humans weren't meant to live here at all, but were sent here by god because we turned away from him. It makes sense to because this planet seems to be run according to the tenents of satanism: survival of the fittest, might makes right, take care of yourself, etc.

I'm just wondering if there's any scripture to falsify or support my ideas.
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:38 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
Ok this question really isn't for non-christians. I'd like to assume in this thread that the Christian god is real and that satan is real. Please debate those claims elsewhere.

I've been thinking about the fall of man story in the light of scientific discoveries lately. It's obvious that viruses and bacteria (the cause of much death and disease in humans and other organisms) existed long before humans existed. That led me to the question: when was the fall of man? How could all death and disease enter the world as a result of Adam's turning away from god if it's obvious that death and disease existed before humans even existed and obviously affected human ancestors (based on retro viral dna insertions).

One of the obvious answers is that god did it and he's all powerful blah blah blah but that wasn't satisfying to me. It bothers me that god would say he created us one way but make it appear that he did it another. Then I had an idea..

What is the garden of eden is not on this planet, but somewhere else, another dimension or another place or anything. It would probably be much closer to god. When Adam disobeyed god then humans had to be sent away from god to a new place, a place ruled by satan. This world is Satan's world, and he has no problem lying to us and misleading us about our true origins. It may well be that all organisms truly did evolve on this planet just as science says, but maybe humans weren't meant to live here at all, but were sent here by god because we turned away from him. It makes sense to because this planet seems to be run according to the tenents of satanism: survival of the fittest, might makes right, take care of yourself, etc.

I'm just wondering if there's any scripture to falsify or support my ideas.
Your problem is you are ignoring the other half of your religion. If you want answers for the old testament, don't look to a Christian... look to a Jew.
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:53 PM #3
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Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
Your problem is you are ignoring the other half of your religion. If you want answers for the old testament, don't look to a Christian... look to a Jew.
Actually the problem is that he started his hypothesis using logic, we all know logic cannot apply to religion.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:07 PM #4
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Actually the problem is that he started his hypothesis using logic, we all know logic cannot apply to religion.
do we now?
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:52 PM #5
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I absolutely refuse to intertwine science with religion, but the following is all scientific fact, and has nothing to do with religion. Do with it what you want.

Bacteria and viruses aren't necessarily pathogenic. I don't have exact numbers, but only a cup of bacteria are regularly harmful in the ocean of microbes. Some pathogens are opportunistic; they cause infection when given an opportunity (weakened immune system [secondary infections], taking antibiotics [C. difficile]).

There is also a difference in "infection" and "disease". An infection doesn't necessarily imply disease. Everyone reading this thread has been infected with E. coli since birth (give or take). Without E. coli, you'd be pretty sick.

I really don't know much about viruses, so I can't really help you there.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:50 PM #6
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Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
do we now?
Logic based on epiricism, yes.

Obviously logic can be applied to religion, hence all of medieval philosophy, but it's logic being applied to a completely baseless conceptual scheme, ie, God exists, God has this nature, etc. So logic works with religion but its application to empirical evdence is irreconcilable.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:04 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
Ok this question really isn't for non-christians. I'd like to assume in this thread that the Christian god is real and that satan is real. Please debate those claims elsewhere.

I've been thinking about the fall of man story in the light of scientific discoveries lately. It's obvious that viruses and bacteria (the cause of much death and disease in humans and other organisms) existed long before humans existed. That led me to the question: when was the fall of man? How could all death and disease enter the world as a result of Adam's turning away from god if it's obvious that death and disease existed before humans even existed and obviously affected human ancestors (based on retro viral dna insertions).

One of the obvious answers is that god did it and he's all powerful blah blah blah but that wasn't satisfying to me. It bothers me that god would say he created us one way but make it appear that he did it another. Then I had an idea..

What is the garden of eden is not on this planet, but somewhere else, another dimension or another place or anything. It would probably be much closer to god. When Adam disobeyed god then humans had to be sent away from god to a new place, a place ruled by satan. This world is Satan's world, and he has no problem lying to us and misleading us about our true origins. It may well be that all organisms truly did evolve on this planet just as science says, but maybe humans weren't meant to live here at all, but were sent here by god because we turned away from him. It makes sense to because this planet seems to be run according to the tenents of satanism: survival of the fittest, might makes right, take care of yourself, etc.

I'm just wondering if there's any scripture to falsify or support my ideas.
I will venture and say that I believe in a hybrid theory that there is a superior force in the universe(s) that in the beginning caused the big bang with the intention of creating us. Follow the theory of evolution from there.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:48 PM #8
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I know this is an older thread but just thought I would speak my mind, in the bible it talks about how God created the earth and then created man to rule over the beast and so on. So we were meant to be here but with the fall of man we broke the peace and had a pandora's box effect so all you can assume is that the "evidence" that you are talking about is not accurate. It just seems you are trying to mix God with evolution and that just doesn't work. not trying to start an big argument, thats just what i think.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:39 PM #9
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Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
Logic based on epiricism, yes.

Obviously logic can be applied to religion, hence all of medieval philosophy, but it's logic being applied to a completely baseless conceptual scheme, ie, God exists, God has this nature, etc. So logic works with religion but its application to empirical evdence is irreconcilable.

is it now?
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