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Old 12-18-2009, 03:20 AM #1
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THE best ever?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuWxnRz6_Y

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Old 12-18-2009, 03:29 AM #2
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Embed videos by using [v i d e o]youtube url[/v i d e o] tags, only without the spaces:



As for being the best ever, I'd say no.

The best receivers in NFL history are:

1A Jerry Rice
1B Don Hutson
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:33 AM #3
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Jerry Rice >*
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:12 AM #4
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Again, anytime you're discussing best receivers ever, or even best players ever, two names should always come up: Jerry Rice and Packers legend Don Hutson.

Everyone knows Rice's credentials. But not everyone knows about Hutson's.

Don Hutson took the WR position to a whole new level. In fact, many of the routes that both Rice and Moss have run came straight out of Hutson's mind.

And no one - not even Jerry Rice - dominated the league quite like he did.

Many of his records still stand:

- Most seasons leading league in pass receptions (8)
- Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receptions (5)
- Most seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (7)
- Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (4)
- Most seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (9)
- Most consecutive seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (5)
- Most seasons leading league in scoring (5)
- Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring (5)

And that was thirty years before Bill Walsh brought the West Coast offense to professional football. Teams weren't exactly airing it out at that time. But the guy just flat out dominated. He was unstoppable.

What's more is that Hutson almost never left the field, since he played both in the defensive secondary, and was Green Bay's kicker - he even set records as a field goal kicker and led the NFL in interceptions one year.

Furthermore, Hutson played in an era ('30s and '40s) when pass interference rules were very, very loose, and highly favored defenses. This meant that defenders would often throw elbows into his throat while he went up for catches. And he still put up those kinds of numbers, in spite of being hacked, slashed, and exhausted from never leaving the field.

He's one of the top ten best players ever and many analysts and sportswriters - even key members of the Green Bay organization - will tell you that he was the greatest player of all time.

In essence, he pretty much created the wide out position, and played a big role in developing football's passing attack, and his legacy is still evident in the routes that receivers run today, even after he retired in 1945. He retired with 18 major NFL records at that time and won consectutive MVP awards in '41 and '42, amongst many other accolades.

Hutson basically proved the value of a WR and Jerry Rice made it what it is now.

As such, the two have done more for that position than anyone else, and that's why I always rank them 1A and 1B.
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Last edited by Kellster : 12-18-2009 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:25 AM #5
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And if you have anymore interest in football history, check this ESPN article out:

Hutson was first modern receiver.

Some of the stats he put up were just staggering.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:19 AM #6
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lol no
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:45 AM #7
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In my mind Randy Moss will always be the douchebag that walked/jogged his routes in Oakland and didn't even try. That's not something the "best ever" would do.
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"Originally posted by Bandwagon Fan UNK: aww whos the lucky guy, will we be seeing you two on a match.com commercial? Yes bush is a better receiver than CJ, once again this forum is a joke for football talk. Go to a REAL football forum and youd clowns be laughed off, thats why you all gather to this pos paintball forum who the **** plays paintball anyway, to talk football when no ones played, and no one knows **** just watchs espn. Its so funny its entertaining which is why i keep comeing back, keep owning and keep makeing kids stick remote controlls up their *** in their anger."
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:32 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonic_dimebag v4 View Post
In my mind Randy Moss will always be the douchebag that walked/jogged his routes in Oakland and didn't even try. That's not something the "best ever" would do.
.

I don't care what he does now, he'll always be that immature doucher I remember from minnesota and oakland who actually played about a quarter of the downs he was on the field for.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:35 AM #9
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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
And if you have anymore interest in football history, check this ESPN article out:

Hutson was first modern receiver.

Some of the stats he put up were just staggering.
Nobody EVER wants to look more than like 10 or 15 years back, though. That's the problem. I couldn't agree with you more, but people see a great receiver TODAY and want him in the conversation for best EVER.
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"Originally posted by Bandwagon Fan UNK: aww whos the lucky guy, will we be seeing you two on a match.com commercial? Yes bush is a better receiver than CJ, once again this forum is a joke for football talk. Go to a REAL football forum and youd clowns be laughed off, thats why you all gather to this pos paintball forum who the **** plays paintball anyway, to talk football when no ones played, and no one knows **** just watchs espn. Its so funny its entertaining which is why i keep comeing back, keep owning and keep makeing kids stick remote controlls up their *** in their anger."
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:47 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonic_dimebag v4 View Post
Nobody EVER wants to look more than like 10 or 15 years back, though. That's the problem. I couldn't agree with you more, but people see a great receiver TODAY and want him in the conversation for best EVER.
The game was so much different back then its too hard to compare across 70 years in football because the rules have changed so much.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:22 PM #11
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He was certainly the pioneer of the position, and made it what we know it as today. I would personally put Rice ahead of him still, but it's hard for me to judge.

And I agree with demonic, in that people are too quick to label current stars as among the greatest ever. You really can't make that judgment until someone's career is over. You can make speculations and really strong arguments, but whenever you do that, you must go back and revisit what the original "best ever" 's were in order to do justice to them and not cheat them out of their legacy.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:13 PM #12
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I know people who say Larry Fitzgerald is the best...they crazy
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:36 PM #13
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You almost have to go with Jerry Rice, but you really couldn't have had Rice without Hutson, so he's gotta be up there too for the dominance he had over the game and basically refining the position to what it is now. Rice at 1a, Hutson at 1b is fine with me.
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Old 12-18-2009, 05:26 PM #14
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lol pats homer fail
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Old 12-18-2009, 05:58 PM #15
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Ive loved Moss wayyyyy before he was a Patriot...in fact, nothing he has done on NE can compare to what he's done for Oakland and Minn...so good try, but you fail
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:02 PM #16
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I've actually always preferred T.O. to Moss in that generation of receivers. Not now, but when he was in his prime.
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:06 PM #17
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lol Oakland? Do you not read? No one respects him for his immature actions while in Oakland.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:16 PM #18
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Hutson was a great player, no doubt about it. But he also played in an era where he wasnt being guarded by top athletes or being paid much attention too. That was the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" era well before the forward pass had really been perfected by Johhny U. Hutson belongs in the top 5 of all time greats, but guys like Chris Carter, Moss, Rice, and even Tim Brown would go ahead of him for me. Hutson lead the league in all those stats but who else was playing WR in the NFL at that time to even challenge him? There wasnt much because of the aforementioned era he played in. No one was really throwing the ball in those days, at least not to the degree they started to in the 60's and especially the 70's.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:29 PM #19
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Not many teams passed, right, which means that Hutson didn't have a QB who was as great of a passer as Montana, Young, Gannon, etc. throwing him the ball. No one remembers Arnie Herber mostly because Herber had an 81/106 TD/INT ratio, not great passing numbers at all and definitely not on the level of Montana or Young. Not to mention the mugging that DBs were allowed to get on receivers in coverage. I'm all for including modern era guys in discussion, but especially if you consider the impact the guy had on the game in criteria for greatness, then there probably isn't a greater receiver than Hutson.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:31 PM #20
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Joe:

While a good point, that's also a rather easy counter argument to make, and don't you also think that with both the dramatic rise of spread offenses at all levels of football and the general decline of the role of defense in the NFL that eventually receivers could put up Playstation numbers in the future and thus utilize the very same counter argument for Jerry Rice?

The game is always evolving, and as a result, future legends will often always hold greater prominence than past ones, for a variety of reasons.

With that said, although playing conditions at the time must be factored into account, I don't think they should tarnish an individual's legacy as a result.

As was said above, Hutson retired with 18 major NFL records at that time. I've always felt that when analyzing players and coaches from the past, it's better to look through the lens of the era they played in. And truly, Hutson was by far the best of his time.

You made a great point that no one else could really challenge him because of how offenses worked in that period, but although it weakens it, it doesn't destroy his case. Furthermore, the fact that defenses could largely interfere with passes and physically perturb him certainly cost him some statistical production that he otherwise would have made under modern rules, wouldn't you agree? And since he never left the field, which is literally unheard of in the league nowadays, one could also ascertain that exhaustion could have also deeply affected him.

So while some things definitely worked in Hutson's favor, other key elements didn't. Teams also didn't pass very much back then, which also hurt his stats.

I don't have a problem if someone wants to put Jerry Rice ahead of Hutson, it wouldn't be an illogical decision at all, I just think that those two men did more to establish the wide out position in football than anyone else.

With that in mind, I will always list them as 1A and 1B, for just a few of the reasons I have stated.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:33 PM #21
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Also don't forget that many of his records weren't broken until many, many years later, well after teams starting chucking it. His 17 TDs in a season stood until 1984. And isn't that the argument with Rice also, that he was much, much better than the guys he was playing against? Hutson was so many years ahead, athletically and in terms of football, that its comparable to Jerry Rice. Rice averaged .65 TDs per game in his career, Hutson averaged .85.
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