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Old 12-22-2009, 12:19 AM #64
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God creates man. God shows man right from wrong. God gives man choice. Man makes wrong choice. God punishes man for wrong choice.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:25 AM #65
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I love how athiests are so critical of the lack of "proof" in theists, but go on to believe in so many scientific theories that are without "proof".
where did I say science theories were a belief system???

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I believe neither of us is understanding what the other is saying... i never said science was or was not a belief system. only that there are people that do believe with little or no true evidence. The only thing keeping the big bang theory as a theory is that they have nothing to contradict it. there is no solid proof that the big bang occured or that god existed.
end conversation
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:28 AM #66
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i believe he just misunderstood the angle at which we were coming from.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:30 AM #67
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i believe he just misunderstood the angle at which we were coming from.
ya and then jumped down my throat over a misunderstood point.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:39 AM #68
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ya... it happens. you know what will make you better...

*HUG*--no homo..

its ok.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:46 AM #69
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Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
ya and then jumped down my throat over a misunderstood point.
Nope not a misunderstood point, your point was and still is merely wrong. Scientists don't just "believe" in something without evidence. You compared belief in God to "belief" in evolution. Incorrect comparison. I explained why on the previous page, go back and reread it if you must.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:58 AM #70
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I highlighted the important parts.

A scientific theory may be a belief, but it is substantiated, predicated on facts, not faith. And it's not a belief in the same way that faith in God is a belief. Belief really isn't the correct word. I don't believe in evolution, I accept it as a well substantiated scientific theory. Get it yet?
there fore you have blind faith because as i stated previously the definition of theory.


a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of ...
hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory


therefor unarguable facts have formed the theory of evolution. using undeniable scientific methods. and you still disagree. even though our dna is close to 99% similar. you still disagree...
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:00 AM #71
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Nope not a misunderstood point, your point was and still is merely wrong. Scientists don't just "believe" in something without evidence. You compared belief in God to "belief" in evolution. Incorrect comparison. I explained why on the previous page, go back and reread it if you must.
Proof is a fact, argument, or piece of evidence which shows that something is definitely true or definitely exists.

Theists believe in God without "proof".
Athiests believe in BBT without "proof".

Don't understand why you're talking about scientists. I never mentioned them.

Outside of actually proving BBT, lets discuss what I was talking about... Athiests, not scientists.

Warbeak, let's do an exercise:
Prove to me that dinosaurs existed.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:02 AM #72
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:13 AM #73
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there fore you have blind faith because as i stated previously the definition of theory.

a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of ...
hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory

therefor unarguable facts have formed the theory of evolution. using undeniable scientific methods. and you still disagree. even though our dna is close to 99% similar. you still disagree...
You do realize that I just said that I accept evolution as a valid scientific theory? I agree with evolution. Reread my post, you clearly misunderstood it.

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Proof is a fact, argument, or piece of evidence which shows that something is definitely true or definitely exists.

Theists believe in God without "proof".
Athiests believe in BBT without "proof".

Don't understand why you're talking about scientists. I never mentioned them.

Outside of actually proving BBT, lets discuss what I was talking about... Athiests, not scientists.

Warbeak, let's do an exercise:
Prove to me that dinosaurs existed.
1. You're assuming that all atheists accept evolution.
2. Accepting evolution does not take faith such as that used by theists to believe in God.
3. No I'm not going to play that game with you, that's not what we're talking about.

You are still wrong. People who accept evolution (not just atheists. I'm not an atheist and I accept evolution), are not acting in the same way as people who believe in God. Accepting a well substantiated scientific theory is not the same as believing in a religion. Your comparison is absurd and wrong.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:19 AM #74
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You do realize that I just said that I accept evolution as a valid scientific theory? I agree with evolution. Reread my post, you clearly misunderstood it.

1. You're assuming that all atheists accept evolution.
2. Accepting evolution does not take faith such as that used by theists to believe in God.


You are still wrong. People who accept evolution (not just atheists. I'm not an atheist and I accept evolution), are not acting in the same way as people who believe in God. Accepting a well substantiated scientific theory is not the same as believing in a religion. Your comparison is absurd and wrong.
Why are you limiting this to just evolution? I haven't even talked about evolution yet. I brought up the BBT.
I believe in evolution, but it is still an unproven concept that requires faith to believe in.

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Accepting evolution does not take faith such as that used by theists to believe in God.
Both are not proven. While one requires more faith than the other, that doesn't excuse the fact that believeing in something that isn't proven requires faith.

If you're not putting faith in the idea, then you are putting faith in the people who promote the idea.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:21 AM #75
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By that logic, everything requires faith because complete empirical knowledge is impossible.

You were saying that "believing" in evolution is the same as believing in a religion. It's not, end of story.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:22 AM #76
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I don't believe in evolution, I accept it as a well substantiated scientific theory.
^^^^^
this is pulled right from your post.. YOU DONT BELIEVE....how can you say "its right but i dont believe it."?
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:24 AM #77
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I don't believe in evolution, I accept it as a well substantiated scientific theory.
^^^^^
this is pulled right from your post.. YOU DONT BELIEVE....how can you say "its right but i dont believe it."?
Holy **** I was differentiating between "believing" in something based on faith and accepting something as true because it was well supported by evidence. If you can't make that distinction, you don't have the intellectual capacity to be discussing this.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:25 AM #78
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You were saying that "believing" in evolution is the same as believing in a religion. It's not, end of story.
Yes, it is.

1) If you don't have proof (definite), then you need faith.
2) Some things require more faith than others.
3) Both BBT and God require a great deal of faith because neither can even be close to proven.
4) Some people choose to ignore their faith in BBT and attack others for their faith in God.

Not a hard concept.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:27 AM #79
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Accepting well supported scientific theories does not come close to requiring the same amount of faith as believing in God. You are oversimplifying this.

Not a hard concept.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:31 AM #80
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Holy **** I was differentiating between "believing" in something based on faith and accepting something as true because it was well supported by evidence. If you can't make that distinction, you don't have the intellectual capacity to be discussing this.
but thats not my point... you said you dont believe something that you know to be true. how can you conciously do that? i understand they are different i do get that... thats not what im after.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:36 AM #81
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but thats not my point... you said you dont believe something that you know to be true. how can you conciously do that? i understand they are different i do get that... thats not what im after.
Ok maybe I didn't state it clearly. I don't JUST believe in evolution. I thought I was getting that across by putting "believe" in quotes. I was trying to distance myself from that word, it doesn't illustrate my understanding of evolution correctly. The more correct word is "accept".
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:37 AM #82
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Accepting well supported scientific theories does not come close to requiring the same amount of faith as believing in God. You are oversimplifying this.

Not a hard concept.
With the holes in the BBT and the emergence of the MT, I would say it requires a decent amount of faith from a scientist in the middle, let alone someone who has to have faith in what that scientist is telling him.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:41 AM #83
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With the holes in the BBT and the emergence of the MT, I would say it requires a decent amount of faith from a scientist in the middle, let alone someone who has to have faith in what that scientist is telling him.
"Decent" doesn't mean the same as believing in God. A scientific theory is held to a different standard than a religious or philosophical idea.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:42 AM #84
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Ok maybe I didn't state it clearly. I don't JUST believe in evolution. I thought I was getting that across by putting "believe" in quotes. I was trying to distance myself from that word, it doesn't illustrate my understanding of evolution correctly. The more correct word is "accept".
ok i understand now. thank you sorry for the miscomunication on my part.
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