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Old 02-11-2010, 04:50 PM #64
harjukewm
 
 
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i think those lpr back ends might actually be lpr port plugs
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:02 PM #65
BonesJackson
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now I know this is completely a personal preference, but what out of whats sitting in that pile of miscellaneous things, would be in your guys opinions a good idea to put inside the gun
The KAPP top hat. That thing is cool as hell. I'd keep the SCM on the gun. Put the Gen 2 black bolt parts back in. I honestly don't know if the Freeflow bolt does anything over the stock Gen 2 bolt (incoming angry Freeflow people), but it's a pretty cool thing to have and I certainly don't think it will *hurt* anything. I'd also put in the Aardvark trigger 'cause I like it but that's totally personal preference.

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i think those lpr back ends might actually be lpr port plugs
Oh damn, I do believe you may be right.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:24 PM #66
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Originally Posted by BonesJackson View Post
The KAPP top hat. That thing is cool as hell. I'd keep the SCM on the gun. Put the Gen 2 black bolt parts back in. I honestly don't know if the Freeflow bolt does anything over the stock Gen 2 bolt (incoming angry Freeflow people), but it's a pretty cool thing to have and I certainly don't think it will *hurt* anything. I'd also put in the Aardvark trigger 'cause I like it but that's totally personal preference.



Oh damn, I do believe you may be right.
the free flow bolt def does help eff, bones i think you should try and get your hands on one(free flow bolt/ with purple 6ms delay back) and see for yourself, then you would know everything
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:45 PM #67
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I have one.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:46 AM #68
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I have one.
looks like you need to do your home work then
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:03 AM #69
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looks like you need to do your home work then
pow?
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:50 AM #70
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:08 AM #71
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:53 PM #72
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i just think if your gonna be a know it all, the you should prob should know it all not just what paul from evolve says....
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:58 PM #73
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:37 PM #74
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i just think if your gonna be a know it all, the you should prob should know it all not just what paul from evolve says....
I would be MORE THAN HAPPY to listen to Ethan's side of things, but he has no interest in responding to me. I would love to have more information from him so I can think about the airflow and wrap my head around what he was trying to do. I get the best information from the people who engage me in conversation; for the most part I tried to keep what I wrote in the article unbiased and factual.

It's also like 2 degrees out, and we all know these guns be temperamental in the colder weather.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:39 PM #75
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i just think if your gonna be a know it all, the you should prob should know it all not just what paul from evolve says....
Last comuniction with Ethan Jan 11th 2010 4:31am

==========================

Unforseen delay. Expect pics and information tomorrow (Tuesday) am.

Ethan


===========================

In all seriousness, we would LOVE to reach the guy but he has not responded to voice mail or email since that point. Perhaps he travels a lot but it's not from lack of effort on our part that we have no information from Mr. Steiner. If you can reach him, please please ask him if he can send us images, info and history. All his sections in our article are lacking.


edit: beaten by Bones

Last edited by Z-man : 02-12-2010 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Bones beat me....
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:05 PM #76
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thats ethan for you tho, i dont really want to commet further but he wasnt the most reliable guy, but im pretty confident bones if you put that bolt in your gun you should see an increase in eff, try it out and see for yourself thats all im sayin you seem to discount the free flow stuff alot. im not tryin to start a big online fight simply trying to get the free flow stuff some credit
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:42 PM #77
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I'm not saying for sure it doesn't work, I just have a hard time believing a full FreeFlow kit will be more efficient than an Evolve 1.1 kit because of the full-sized shot chamber. Let me just go over the FreeFlow mods and break them down with knowledge of how this gun works.

Opening up the dead air chamber
It's cool in theory because it's like "sweet, double the airflow!" Then you start thinking about it. Let's assume there are no air chambers, and air is transferred via hoses, macroline for example. So you run a macroline hose from the top of the HPR to the back of the gun and plug it into the pre-dump chamber. The gun works. Then you take a second hose and do the same thing. The gun... still works? Why not do it with 3 hoses? 14? It's not like the size of the live air chambers has ever been the source of shootdown issues on these guns. This mod is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The Back Cap
Bored out chamber, improved the flow of air to the shot chamber. This can, at best, help with any shootdown problems at high ROF. Did anyone experience bad shootdown problems at a high ROF with the stock back plugs? I do believe this mod *can* do something, it just seems rather miniscule. Does not impact efficiency as best as I can tell.

The Spacer
This one is hilarious. This does absolutely nothing at all. Lightens the thing perhaps by 1/2 a gram? Increases the volume of the shot chamber a tiny bit (anti-top hat mod in progress~). Air comes through the middle hole in the spacer. SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TURNING 6 HOLES INTO 3 OVALS HELPS ANYTHING. AIR DOESN'T FLOW THROUGH THOSE HOLES AT ALL. That piece of metal is flush with the rear wall. Pointless. Utterly pointless.

FreeFlow Top Hat
Its only claim to fame as described by FreeFlow was that it was designed to reduce or eliminate first shot drop off. Lofty claim, considering there are o-rings affecting fsdo that aren't on the top hat. Top hat is also the size of, or pretty close to the size of a stock top hat. No efficiency gains there.

The Bolt
By people's own admission here, the venturi style porting either does nothing or is counterproductive, so we'll stick to the open face designs. I don't know enough about how this whole "bolt delay" system was supposed to work, and that's where I wish I could talk to Ethan. Blue back = inefficient. Orange back = somewhat efficient. Purple back = most efficient. When compared to a stock gen 2 black bolt, how do the different backs stack up? I don't know.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:00 PM #78
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i agree with the dead air chamber, but the rest i dont the reason why the back cap which i assume is the same as saying rear plug from the diagrams, the free flow one is almost identical to to the evolve 1.1 rear plug, the spacer is almost identical as to the evolve 1.1 the only real diff between the free flow bolt kit is the front wall/beer can is one piece in the evolve 1.1 and in the free flow its two pieces which doesn't effect eff at all, the second diff is and the only one that would matter interms of eff is the top hat is significantly "fatter" than the free flow one, which would make it more eff but only slightly, but then we come to the bolt, the bolt i will have to defer bryce who i will get to post up his knowledge because he can explain it better than i can, so again the only real diff between the evolve 1.1 and the free flow bolts(except for the act bolt itself w/ the diff ms delay backs) is the beercan/front wall being combined which does nothing for eff and the top hat which would increase eff, so with out comparing the actual bolt and stems it self there is advantage to the evolve, but i believe that once you put a free flow bolt open face with any of the stems whether they be 2ms 4ms or 6ms will be more efficient than the stock bolt which is what the evolve its just gold, thus bringing the free flow to same level or above in terms of eff than the evolve 1.1
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:02 PM #79
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that being said that the two bolt kits are almost identical and if all these things do nothing in your opinion then why is the evolve 1.1 so much better than the free flow
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:30 PM #80
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Top hat.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:26 PM #81
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so if i had a evolve 1.1 top hat on a completely stock bolt i could get same eff as a complete evolve 1.1 bolt kit? people pay 100-120 bucks for a stock bolt kit painted gold with a different top hat? if those other mods useless then why would evolve include them in their designs and final product?, Have you ever tested that free flow bolt that you have, if so did it increase your efficiency?
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:59 PM #82
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Better top hat
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:00 PM #83
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Well on a lighter note I really, really love vintage matrices, anyone else?
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:36 PM #84
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i agree with the dead air chamber, but the rest i dont the reason why the back cap which i assume is the same as saying rear plug from the diagrams, the free flow one is almost identical to to the evolve 1.1 rear plug, the spacer is almost identical as to the evolve 1.1 the only real diff between the free flow bolt kit is the front wall/beer can is one piece in the evolve 1.1 and in the free flow its two pieces which doesn't effect eff at all, the second diff is and the only one that would matter interms of eff is the top hat is significantly "fatter" than the free flow one, which would make it more eff but only slightly, but then we come to the bolt, the bolt i will have to defer bryce who i will get to post up his knowledge because he can explain it better than i can, so again the only real diff between the evolve 1.1 and the free flow bolts(except for the act bolt itself w/ the diff ms delay backs) is the beercan/front wall being combined which does nothing for eff and the top hat which would increase eff, so with out comparing the actual bolt and stems it self there is advantage to the evolve, but i believe that once you put a free flow bolt open face with any of the stems whether they be 2ms 4ms or 6ms will be more efficient than the stock bolt which is what the evolve its just gold, thus bringing the free flow to same level or above in terms of eff than the evolve 1.1

i dont want to get in the middle of you two, but there were not any periods in this post....just sayin
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