Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-13-2010, 05:56 PM #43
Z-man
We talkin BPS or BS here?
 
Z-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce12 View Post
Uhh, I worked at professional paintball for 2 years and you have no idea what you are talking about. Evolve borrowed the Free flow bolt delay method. Along with a few of the lethal mods (ie, Bolt plug, spacer, real wall) and sold it as a complete bolt.
The purple and black acid wash lethal parts were sold/manufactured by Professional Paintball (Free Flow) with the permission from the 2 guys who created Lethal.
So here is the Leethal V2 mod show alone and installed you can clearly see his unified spacer/sleeve design and how it replaced the conventional ones used on bolt kits like the Aardvark Red Bolt (shown below for reference).


and here is the Evolve 1.1 gold Bolt shown exploded and assembled. I don't see anything remotely like the Leethal v2 Mod above that was copied or even modified into the design.

And here is the Evolve X-93 bolt in case you were thinking of that bolt. I don't see anything in that kit that matches the Leethal mod either...


Now i have only seen FreeFlow's bolt kits like this one below

Fortunately Ethan Steiner has a "care package" of images and data on all the Freeflow stuff that is being sent out so it won't take long to sort this one out.
Z-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 01-13-2010, 06:16 PM #44
BonesJackson
Legendary
 
BonesJackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
There are 3 other Freeflow bolts. One is acid wash red/orange. Another one is black with threading for the adjustable back ends (purple/orange/blue) like the gold one pictured above. The last is a blue venturi style bolt. I heard rumors of a Leethal bolt, and I assumed it was one of those considering how Leertech and Professional Products/FreeFlow worked together on things.

I don't know why you're being this vindictive, but if you're so confident that Evolve did nothing by themselves, how do you explain their exceptional efficiency? Can FreeFlow/Leethal bolts beat an Evolve 1.1 in terms of efficiency?
BonesJackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 05:27 PM #45
Sonicdave
 
 
Sonicdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver
 has been a member for 10 years
Sonicdave plays in the PSP
Sonicdave supports DLX Technology
i believe that the lethal mods will be just as eff as the evolve kit, if you look the the lethal and evolve bolt the spacer back wall and rear plug are almost identical, the only diffs between the two bolt kit front wall and beer can are one piece on the evolve but on the lethal bolt kit they are two diff pieces but that dosent really matter because making it one piece instead of two does not increase eff, the top hats are a lil diff as well, the evolve top has has a larger diameter than the lethal top hat( again most of these top hats were mismilled so not too many people have them) but the lethal top hat was still bigger than stock. now to the bolt, i not quite sure what milisecond delay the back of the evolve kit is but as many of you remeber the free flow bolt kit came with 3 diff milisecond delay backs 2ms 4ms and a 6ms, with the 6 milisecond dealy back led to the biggest increase in eff. so again i believe that with a free flow bolt and the lethal "mods" aka spacer, back wall and rear plug which i have in my trauma right now and will do extensive eff test this weekend will be as eff or just maybe a hair less(i dont have the lethal top hat, been lookin for so long!!!) than the evolve kit
Sonicdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 05:39 PM #46
Bryce12
 
 
Bryce12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Field 6
 has been a member for 10 years
Z-man: nice pics, but I never once referred to the (as you guys call it) V2 Leethal mod. So i'm not sure why exactly you quoted me. But if you look closely at the evolve bolt in your photo, you can see how the bolt spacer and plug both resemble the leethal mods (v1 purple & black) ones i was talking about. And the Leethal mods and free flow bolt were out way before evolve released there complete bolt assembly.

bonesjackson- im so confident because i had to sit at a chrono at work and do shot counts with all the bolts to see what bolt setup had a higher count. And when i used the 6ms delay back with open face (like the image above) and all the V1 leethal mods, it was slightly higher then the evolve bolt kit. Unfortunately i'm a burnout and dont remember exactly the difference but we are talking about a difference of a 100 or less.
__________________
585>716
USPA
Legacy Paintball
Legacy Pb Fb
Field 6
Bryce12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:20 AM #47
MaToCa
www.FXAnodizing.com
 
MaToCa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orlando
 has been a member for 10 years
MaToCa owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce12 View Post
Uhh, I worked at professional paintball for 2 years and you have no idea what you are talking about. Evolve borrowed the Free flow bolt delay method. Along with a few of the lethal mods (ie, Bolt plug, spacer, real wall) and sold it as a complete bolt.
The purple and black acid wash lethal parts were sold/manufactured by Professional Paintball (Free Flow) with the permission from the 2 guys who created Lethal.

"edit- beaten :\"

Sonicdave- I was the guy who taped the receipt on the wall for 1 FF matrix bolt ordered from Evolve!

He speaks the TRUTH! I have several lethal mods with the often sought after blue stem! Muhahahahaha, its part of my Mutt Bolt.
__________________
Guns for sale
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4026523
Misc. gun parts, more to be added.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3998482
Anodizing
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3719499

War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left.
MaToCa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:21 PM #48
paul_gun
Designer For Hire
 
paul_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
paul_gun works for a Paintball manufacturer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce12 View Post
Z-man: nice pics, but I never once referred to the (as you guys call it) V2 Leethal mod. So i'm not sure why exactly you quoted me. But if you look closely at the evolve bolt in your photo, you can see how the bolt spacer and plug both resemble the leethal mods (v1 purple & black) ones i was talking about. And the Leethal mods and free flow bolt were out way before evolve released there complete bolt assembly.

bonesjackson- im so confident because i had to sit at a chrono at work and do shot counts with all the bolts to see what bolt setup had a higher count. And when i used the 6ms delay back with open face (like the image above) and all the V1 leethal mods, it was slightly higher then the evolve bolt kit. Unfortunately i'm a burnout and dont remember exactly the difference but we are talking about a difference of a 100 or less.
The original leathal mods were done to your original back cap and spacer you had to send them off this was way before freeflow started selling them. I started shooting the matrix on 2001 and got given some bolt parts in 2002 at the german masters by richmond himself The evolve bolt parts were released after leathals mods in red but before freeflow started doing matrix parts we were sent one of the first 1 piece purple bolt by doby from MO his team were allready shooting the evolve bolt way before this..

They were first released under ICG in 2002 then when we began shipping them as full kits in june 2003 we changed the name of the company to evolve.

We always said the bolt was a collection of other mods all made to work together, if you look at the evolve bolt delay it is identical to the stock black bolts that came with the matrix this is the same for the delrin bolt too we found the bolt delay did nothing to the point were we made the mid section on the x93 bolt all one diameter.

The recipt to evolve paintball for a freeflow bolt was for the shocker bolt i still have that exact bolt in my tool box we bought it because we were the first to produce a HE bolt for the shocker the first to patent it and show it to SP and our lawyers wanted to see everyone making them. funny how when the shoe is on the other foot nothing is mentioned!!!! its ok when we get ripped off!

I spoke to lethal a couple of times and at no point did he ever mention anything about us ripping him off...

this thread has gone soo off topic it is untrue.
paul_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:35 PM #49
BonesJackson
Legendary
 
BonesJackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
^^^ Paul Garry from Evolve, people. Thanks for giving the other side of the story.
BonesJackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:38 PM #50
Bryce12
 
 
Bryce12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Field 6
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_gun View Post
The original leathal mods were done to your original back cap and spacer you had to send them off this was way before freeflow started selling them.
correct. that's why when i think lethal mod i think of the actual back plug. And your statement backs up mine that the leethal mods were out before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_gun View Post
They were first released under ICG in 2002 then when we began shipping them as full kits in june 2003 we changed the name of the company to evolve.
I did not mention just the evolve bolt. I was referring to the complete bolt assembly. read what i posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_gun View Post
... we found the bolt delay did nothing to the point were we made the mid section on the x93 bolt all one diameter.
with that said, it makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. Or that the FF bolts dont change anything. Or you could then try and explain to me how the FF bolt increases your shot count so much compared to the stock bolt stem?
__________________
585>716
USPA
Legacy Paintball
Legacy Pb Fb
Field 6

Last edited by Bryce12 : 01-15-2010 at 03:40 PM. Reason: cant spell
Bryce12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:48 PM #51
Sonicdave
 
 
Sonicdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver
 has been a member for 10 years
Sonicdave plays in the PSP
Sonicdave supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce12 View Post
correct. that's why when i think lethal mod i think of the actual back plug. And your statement backs up mine that the leethal mods were out before.


I did not mention just the evolve bolt. I was referring to the complete bolt assembly. read what i posted.



with that said, it makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. Or that the FF bolts dont change anything. Or you could then try and explain to me how the FF bolt increases your shot count so much compared to the stock bolt stem?
pow
Sonicdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:54 PM #52
paul_gun
Designer For Hire
 
paul_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
paul_gun works for a Paintball manufacturer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce12 View Post
correct. that's why when i think lethal mod i think of the actual back plug. And your statement backs up mine that the leethal mods were out before.


I did not mention just the evolve bolt. I was referring to the complete bolt assembly. read what i posted.



with that said, it makes me think you dont know what you are talking about. Or that the FF bolts dont change anything. Or you could then try and explain to me how the FF bolt increases your shot count so much compared to the stock bolt stem?
You were going about the v1 mods that were made by Pro and sold as a part not modding existing back caps this is why evolve released a version you could buy off the shelf.


The evolve bolt kit was just made up of the parts we were making so if you agree the bolt parts were out before pro then how could we have copied the delay?? still to this day there are no evolve bolts out there with a delay on the mid section....

I said WE didn't see much of a difference!!! funny how the gold bolt is still going for well over $100 on ebay considering i dont know anything...when anyone talks about getting high shot counts on a matrix it is with the gold bolt kit i dont see anyone on PBN asking for more freeflow bolts to be made do you?

this is a pathetic and pointless argument its not going anywhere and is just covering stuff that has been done to death for over 7 years..

.

Last edited by paul_gun : 01-15-2010 at 03:59 PM. Reason: missed dont out
paul_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:55 PM #53
Z-man
We talkin BPS or BS here?
 
Z-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
 has been a member for 10 years
I can see where this is going.

When you start getting 1 word posts we're reaching the e-peen pissing match where it doesn't matter what you say. I think I better try to use Ethan as my research link rather than you guys for FreeFlow info... (nothing on you Paul)

Last edited by Z-man : 01-15-2010 at 03:59 PM. Reason: speeeeeeeeeeeeeling
Z-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:20 PM #54
Scatlm
equilibrium
 
Scatlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: FL
I fill 4x using an NYX w/ Evolve 1.1 + Ninja 49 ci/45K-2000rounds

I fill 5x using an NYX w/stock bolt + Ninja 49 ci/45K-2000 rounds..

That is what it comes down to.. one extra fill, big-whoop, you people need to get a life and stop being so lazy about having to fill one xtra time..
Scatlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:43 PM #55
BonesJackson
Legendary
 
BonesJackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
I hear if you use the purple parts it actually recharges your tank.
BonesJackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 07:49 PM #56
MaToCa
www.FXAnodizing.com
 
MaToCa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orlando
 has been a member for 10 years
MaToCa owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
^^^^^ Your So Funny^^^^^^

If I go to the field with 4000 on the guage, shoot 4 pods and a hopper Im still left with 2000+ on my guage, depending on the weather. Equals roughly 1500 shots on a 68/4500.

Lethal spacer
Lethal Back Plug
Aardvark Bolt stop (milled)
Free Flow Venturi/ Blue stem
Rest Image Parts

Like I said, Its a Mutt!
__________________
Guns for sale
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4026523
Misc. gun parts, more to be added.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3998482
Anodizing
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3719499

War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left.
MaToCa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 08:40 PM #57
BonesJackson
Legendary
 
BonesJackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
I've been told the blue stem is the 2ms delay one, making it the least efficient. Those numbers seem to support that hypothesis.
BonesJackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 08:50 PM #58
MaToCa
www.FXAnodizing.com
 
MaToCa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orlando
 has been a member for 10 years
MaToCa owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Me, doesnt really matter. My gat shoots the same either way. Lets all just get along and Mow Faces.......lol.
__________________
Guns for sale
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4026523
Misc. gun parts, more to be added.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3998482
Anodizing
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3719499

War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left.
MaToCa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 03:29 PM #59
WS ARMY
BIGGSIE R.I.P
 
WS ARMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ctrl Fl
 has been a member for 10 years
WS ARMY has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Hey guys. Here is my collection of random parts that I acquired over the years. The problem I have here is that I stopped playing for several years and am just getting back into things, and I want to get my matrix all set up the the best of its ability, and I have forgotten quite a bit about the intricacies of whats what. If you guys could just help me identify what I have in here and I took a picture of whats in my gun right now, which i believe is an image steup, but I am sure there are things in my kit to improve on the performance in my gun without buying a thing. So without further a due... here it is.









__________________
-Chaos Crew-

EAST COAST PAINTBALL: NO FRILLS, JUST KILLS.
"You can get far in life with a smile........You can get alot farther with a smile and a gun."- Al Capone
Old School Feedback

Gearbag Sale
WS ARMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 03:52 PM #60
Sonicdave
 
 
Sonicdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver
 has been a member for 10 years
Sonicdave plays in the PSP
Sonicdave supports DLX Technology
I'm sure BonesJackson could tell you
Sonicdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 04:13 PM #61
WS ARMY
BIGGSIE R.I.P
 
WS ARMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ctrl Fl
 has been a member for 10 years
WS ARMY has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
He does seem to know everything... If only we could find him...
__________________
-Chaos Crew-

EAST COAST PAINTBALL: NO FRILLS, JUST KILLS.
"You can get far in life with a smile........You can get alot farther with a smile and a gun."- Al Capone
Old School Feedback

Gearbag Sale
WS ARMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 05:05 PM #62
BonesJackson
Legendary
 
BonesJackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
If only. If I were you I'd just go to the sticky thread at the top of the page that links to the article where I have detailed pictures of everything.

Anyway, quickly scanning over your goods:
KAPP adjustable top hat
Aardvark Alligator trigger
Freeflow bolt (black with purple back)
Freeflow top hat (purple/black acid wash
Shocktech LPR
Some... LPR back ends?
A lot of Gen 1 bolt parts
1 gen 2 black bolt kit
A partial bottle of Toxic Dave's Motion Potion
an AKA SCM (on gun)

All in all a nice collection of goodies!
BonesJackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 05:28 PM #63
WS ARMY
BIGGSIE R.I.P
 
WS ARMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ctrl Fl
 has been a member for 10 years
WS ARMY has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
WS ARMY has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
now I know this is completely a personal preference, but what out of whats sitting in that pile of miscellaneous things, would be in your guys opinions a good idea to put inside the gun
__________________
-Chaos Crew-

EAST COAST PAINTBALL: NO FRILLS, JUST KILLS.
"You can get far in life with a smile........You can get alot farther with a smile and a gun."- Al Capone
Old School Feedback

Gearbag Sale
WS ARMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump