questionable call.

injaben50 · 03-15-2009, 06:24 PM

today at a local tourney a player asked for a paint check and a ref ran over and checked him. immediately after the ref checked him another ref ran halfway across the field and pulled him for a hopper hit that he "heard" without even checking the player. the player was actually clean and a 1 for 1 was also assessed for playing on. the player asked the ref to show him the hit and he kept saying "i heard it hit go to the deadbox." did the ref do the right thing in this situation?

VibePower17 · 03-15-2009, 06:54 PM

no hopper hits don't always break. DerDer Roadkill is a prime example its caught on video. The ref should see the hit to take him out.

FatalKitty · 03-17-2009, 05:25 PM

In a similar situation one of my team mates was called out on a hit on hit hopper with no evidence of paint. What happened was the paintball barely nicked the loader and exploaded... leaving no paint on the hopper - but it did indeed hit the loader and break. in order to call an elimination a ref simply needs to see a ball hit and break on you... there doesn't have to be paint there.

VibePower17 · 03-23-2009, 10:13 AM

that doesn't make any sense... for you to be eliminated there should be paint on you or a penalty

DocR · 03-23-2009, 11:39 AM

Nope. Visual confirmation by a ref that a paintball hit and broke is all that is needed to eliminate a player.

There have been many times where I've seen a ball explode and it left no paint to a very very small spot of paint....like a mm or two.

The penalty part...eh. If it broke and left no paint at all there is a pretty good chance the player may not have felt or known that it had even hit. Usually the hits that spray and left little to nothing are on the edge of equipment...very top of the hopper, back edge of a pod, etc.

Definitely 100%..do not have to have a drop of paint on you to be eliminated if it was a hit seen by a ref.

FatalKitty · 03-23-2009, 01:01 PM

and the reason for that is because some shady people out there will use pam or rainx on their loaders which makes it really hard for all but the best quality paint to stick to the loader.

TeamShellShock · 03-23-2009, 11:00 PM

If all he did was Hear it then the player shouldn't have been pulled.

MN_Rising · 03-24-2009, 12:20 AM

Hard to say without knowing what all went through the Ref's mind.

Since you can't honestly say that the Ref didn't see it, he may be saying "he heard it" because it's easier then explaining that he saw the ball break and not leave any paint...

TeamShellShock · 03-24-2009, 01:51 AM

Well you cant say that he didn't see it, but the ref didn't say that he saw the hit according to the OP.

Now which do you think causes more issue when pulling a player; saying you heard a hit, or saying you saw a ball break but left little to no paint?

MN_Rising · 03-24-2009, 02:35 PM

I've had a large handful of people who when I say that I saw it freak out because they didn't and because there's no proof and that causes more arguments than saying that I heard it as well so even if there isn't any paint, I know that it broke. You're going to get players fighting it either way.

TeamShellShock · 03-24-2009, 04:04 PM

I really do hope you get more arguments from watching balls break than hearing them break.

Your going to be fighting it either way...but at least on the one hand you have some type of rule backing you. Hearing a hit is not justifiable in the rules as an elimination, add to the fact he didn't check the player and added a 1 for 1 on it.

MiLLz · 05-18-2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamShellShock

I really do hope you get more arguments from watching balls break than hearing them break.

Your going to be fighting it either way...but at least on the one hand you have some type of rule backing you. Hearing a hit is not justifiable in the rules as an elimination, add to the fact he didn't check the player and added a 1 for 1 on it.

absolutely correct. Per the rule book, the paintball must leave a mark! A mark includes an itsey bitsy dot that WAS BELIEVED to have resulted from the paintball in question. if it bounces off and breaks, not leaving a mark, the player is CLEAN. The ref should check before he eliminates you. Reason: a ref's sight (from a distance) can be nearly 2-dimensional. if the ref sees a spray near your hopper it may have been from the bunker, from something between you and the ref or something the ref saw behind you. An elimination would be a bad call. however, if the ultimate is doing their job (fancy that!), that is also a non-reversable call.
Rules 19.01 (1) and 19.01 (3)

edit: should be 19.01 (2), not 19.01(3). sorry.

FatalKitty · 05-18-2009, 11:31 PM

^^
the rule section you just cited:

Quote:

19.01 (2) If
the referee witnesses the ball hit and break and leaves less than a quarter size it will be considered a valid hit.

a ref simply needs to see the ball break for them to eliminate you.
is it a failproof rules? no..
is it the rule? yes.

MiLLz · 05-18-2009, 11:59 PM

bro it says hit AND break AND leaves less than a quarter size

FatalKitty · 05-19-2009, 12:20 AM

and?...
this is how refs in the league call the game - they see paint break on you, they pull you. - even if "less than a quarter sized mark" means there is no mark - the ref whitnessed it break.
no trying and wipe it, no trying and blame it on bunker rub, no excuses

MiLLz · 05-19-2009, 12:40 AM

Although "less than a quarter" sounds like it includes zero, don't forget the other rule just preceeding which eliminates zero paint as a possible elimination and also says that the ball needs to "break upon the object struck." Remember, the whole section is titled "Marked with Paint." An elimination would be the wrong call. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this particular rule seems pretty clear to me.

Justin BossPB · 05-19-2009, 12:43 PM

seems pretty clear to me as well. The ref is question was wrong period.

iggaziziss · 07-17-2009, 12:21 AM

the ref needs to check him first

DeathMachine · 08-13-2009, 11:50 AM

no paint is no hit even with the less then rule you still need some to prove its a hit even a speck. ive been called out after the ball hit a tree before and sprayed me it was bs. you need some paint on you for it to be a hit if theres no paint then its clean. and any ref that says i herd it hit you should be fired.

MN_Rising · 08-13-2009, 12:38 PM

NOT True.

If a ref sees the paintball break on you it doesn't have to leave anything on you. Comes straight from the PSP Certification clinic

Only Trash · 08-14-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN_Rising

NOT True.

If a ref sees the paintball break on you it doesn't have to leave anything on you. Comes straight from the PSP Certification clinic

I don't think they are using PSP rules . So your knowledge as a $85.00
PSP ref is worth 0

Players like you who can't play paintball for sh** take the $85.00
PSP reff school and think they Know it all. This is part of the reason
a lot of the reffs at nationals su** and you are one of them.

Think they know it all or just don't have a clue.