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Old 12-07-2009, 03:29 PM #106
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Originally Posted by som3 dud3 View Post
I'm not rationalizing the morality of it. Remove yourself from the human condition, eliminate morality as an issue first. File sharing studies show that it isn't nearly as harmful to the artist and consumer as the current market systems put in place by the RIAA and other major labels. After you have that part what your morality says can be factored into the solution, but not before.

I'm not advocating that you do/don't pirate things, much less even getting into the problems of intellectual property. What I am advocating is critical thinking towards the topic at hand, not emotional fingerpointing and namecalling.
You're right. I guess its not that bad.

BTW, I don't think I did any namecalling?
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:34 PM #107
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Sorry, didn't mean you specifically, it was a generalization.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:46 PM #108
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You say no one loses money... you forget peoples time, production costs, marketing, etc... lol downloading a song is still profit loss.
ya, i agree, but the same exact things go into a product that is going to be on shelves or at a dealership.
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Old 12-07-2009, 05:35 PM #109
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The other thing you have to think about is what costs go in to making a H4AD or a CK2. If they went into it with a budget that was X and expected to sell X and have fallen short, then there is bound to be some tough and contentious folks out there. MWAG can't know what a DVD will sell, except for maybe looking at what his previous works have sold.

So much of content creation is based on perceived income or what the demand is for something. If you guess wrong, you and your partners/sponsors are out your investment. If you guess right, you are living in the black and will be able to make other content in the future. Artists and musicians who depend on their works for a living live and die by this everyday. You give birth to an idea and then try to market and sell the idea. Sometimes it takes off and sometimes it fails.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:11 AM #110
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for the hard working touring bands that are signed to smaller labels like rise or mediaskare, they make literally NO money off CD sales. they make all the money on the road, from promoters and merch they sell. my band would rather give the music away just to have people at our live shows.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:26 PM #111
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Interesting story if you think Joe Blazestorm (and college reprobates just like him) is the only one stealing music...

http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...r-infringement
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:11 PM #112
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I have a hypothetical situation for the people in here, especially Pat.

Lets say I bought Cereal Killerz, loved it, met pat, talked to him at an event, bought a shirt, maybe a couple of stickers. Then I spoke (truthfully) to my friends about how good cereal killerz was. I rep his stickers as the only ones on my gun and one of very few on my hopper. During this time H4AD came out, and admittedly, I wasn't much of an XSV fan so I felt little interest in buying it. Then a friend came over, told me he bought it, we watched it, I liked it so I copied it to my computer. I watched it two or three times and enjoyed most if it. Fast forward to now. I'm a proud legal owner of CK2. The only two videos on my iphone are CK and CK2.

Is acquiring H4AD like this wrong? Is this stealing? Its hard to imagine that the only tangible part of what I stole were the megabytes on my computer's hard drive. I never intended to buy H4AD in the first place, but now I have viewed it and have it on my hard drive. At first I thought a paintball team documentary would be bad, but after watching it I am inclined to purchase any other team documentaries Pat intends to come out with because H4AD changed my mind.

Also for those who say "Its paintball, no one is going to pirate it" After 5 seconds of searching I've already come across some (don't bother PMing me, if I'm not downloading it I'm definitely not going to help you download it).
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:14 AM #113
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Quote:
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Sorry kids it is the same... stealing is stealing.

steal |stēl|
verb ( past stole |stōl|; past part. stolen |ˈstōlən|)
1 [ trans. ] take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it : thieves stole her bicycle | [ intrans. ] she was found guilty of stealing music from the internet | [as adj. ] ( stolen) stolen goods.

Just say I stole the music and cop to it. Then your just a thief.

But when you say I stole the music and it's OK because it not stealing... then your a stupid thief.

-patrick



How many songs on your ipod have you actually paid for?
Think about it......
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:18 AM #114
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As a film maker, I have to resort to working for production companies to pay the bills because of the current market. And what I mean when I say the current market I mean the fact that when a film is released it is just simply uploaded onto the internet, and downloaded by anyone who wants to watch it.

Truthfully I have lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars in this sense as Patrick himself has, I sold my copy of CK2 for half the price to a friend just so he wouldn't go out and download it, Then I bought a new copy.

To the normal person its efficient, simple, and easy to just download music or videos off the internet. To the creator every time we know that our film/song was downloaded we think of how much money and profit we lost. AS A FILM MAKER I spend hundreds of dollars into my films as I know Patrick himself did too... so when you download his film, he's hoping he will have enough to gain profit let alone break even.

Think of it this way...
The Dark Knight cost over 150 Million Dollars to produce...
thats 7,500,000 DVDs sold at $20 each just to break even.

Dark Knight broke even first day in theaters
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:21 AM #115
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How many songs on your ipod have you actually paid for?
Think about it......
The only songs on my iPod that I didn't pay for were given to me (Buckfast's new album was given away for free at their launch party).
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:27 AM #116
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Is acquiring H4AD like this wrong? Is this stealing? Its hard to imagine that the only tangible part of what I stole were the megabytes on my computer's hard drive.
yes
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:18 AM #117
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yes
How is that wrong?
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:51 PM #118
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How is that wrong?
It's wrong because now there are 2 copies of H4AD, when only one was purchased. He created another copy so he wouldn't have to purchase it.


And yes, every song on my iPod was obtained legally.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:07 PM #119
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It's wrong because now there are 2 copies of H4AD, when only one was purchased. He created another copy so he wouldn't have to purchase it.


And yes, every song on my iPod was obtained legally.
A copy he already watched with his friend and wouldn't have bought anyway..
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:58 PM #120
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know what, he's damn right. steal everything.

since when was making art a ****ing buisness, if you gave two ****s about your message, if you gave two ****s about your true meaning then you'd be handing out ****ing cd's

movies and stuff is different. but a LOT of money goes into that ****. paying actors, film, production ect. i wouldn't steal a movie, same with all the other **** he mentioned that had money into it. but if your going broke producing your music then stop. no one's forcing you to do that ****. you took the job, deal with it. you care about your music then keep doing your thing, but all these ****s care about is money.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:21 PM #121
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but if your going broke producing your music then stop. no one's forcing you to do that ****. you took the job, deal with it. you care about your music then keep doing your thing, but all these ****s care about is money.
This is how self-supported artists will die off.

I have a feeling we'll only be seeing two general groups of artists / acts if piracy continues.

Its either gonna be big budget, market researched to hell, $$ driven, hollywood bull**** like, Lady Gaga and 2012 that can weather piracy..

or

amateur low-budget free crap that you see on youtube.

Sure, theres plenty of great 'big budget hollywood' stuff out there, and plenty of wonderful 'home-made low budget' material as well, but its a shame that we may lose more of the up and coming artists who need sales to support themselves.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:42 PM #122
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wouldn't have bought anyway..
Yet, he gets to enjoy watching H4AD anytime he wants.. and the best part? He didn't even pay a penny for it!

That's how its stealing.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:46 PM #123
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So can the kid I gave my copy of it too.

He gave me Sunday Drivers.

Is that stealing?
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:03 PM #124
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Books. Books is the model you should use when thinking about this. If I have a book, and I loan it to Patrick, I can't read it. He has it. He can read it. I bought it... but while Patrick is reading it I can't. When he gives it back, he can't read it anymore and now I can. If he loved it so much he wanted one of his own, he can purchase one, and now both of us can read it at the same time, or I can just give him my copy, and now I can never read it without re-purchasing a copy.

The same goes for music and movies.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:29 AM #125
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Books. Books is the model you should use when thinking about this. If I have a book, and I loan it to Patrick, I can't read it. He has it. He can read it. I bought it... but while Patrick is reading it I can't. When he gives it back, he can't read it anymore and now I can. If he loved it so much he wanted one of his own, he can purchase one, and now both of us can read it at the same time, or I can just give him my copy, and now I can never read it without re-purchasing a copy.

The same goes for music and movies.
I can use my free library card and read as many books as I want.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:05 AM #126
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I can use my free library card and read as many books as I want.
You're missing the point entirely, though I must commend your creativity in trying to blindly justify what you WANT to believe is okay.

The library has legal rights to the books. If you were to go there and make copies of every page of those books so you didn't have to buy them to have your own copy, then it would be a violation of that copyright. Look at that word and its root meaning. COPY RIGHT. The RIGHT to COPY it. If you don't own that copyright, or have permission from the owner of that copyright, then you are violating that copy right.
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