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Old 11-06-2009, 10:20 AM #1
sumorai
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Originally Posted by J. Stein View Post
Odd that no one also notices that they have a lot more of the Dave Painter - George Zervas - John Necco type people, and they have ones with a lot more experience. Ron Kilbourne, Rich Telford, Bob Long... Heck, by CA standards, Rich is second or third generation, as he cut his teeth with Youngblood and Bob Long. The point is, there is a very deep pool of management talent out there. And yet, we are so ready to poo-poo that away.

The closest we have to that tradition is the NYX guys - Mooner, Fritz, Rosie... and they are all gone from the national scene.
That is something that troubled me greatly this year. We (Crisis) did our best with what we had, but I was always trying to find a way for us to acquire coaching talent to help us out. It simply did not seem to exist. The people that have the knowledge are either gone, or are already dedicated to a team.

I consider the lack of solid coaching in New England a serious detriment to the development of teams and players. Most teams in New England have no coaches at all. There is no guidance. Every single one of those teams without a coaching/management staff is constantly reinventing the wheel. I can imagine that teams would be far better off if there were more coaches out there to guide them.

DA recently stated here that he'd be interested in coaching a divisional team. If Crisis had decided to continue in the AXBL, we absolutely would have made every attempt to to woo him. I haven't seen anyone else jumping on that opportunity, but I obviously don't know if anyone has contacted him privately yet. There are tons of teams around here that could benefit greatly by having him involved.

One of the other things we were planning on doing was bringing back drill nights at BP like the Canes used to have. It would have been targeted more at younger, less experienced players to give them a means for improving their individual talent, while also giving us a chance to do drills regularly. I championed this because I used to go to the Canes drill nights as often as possible and it helped me immensely. I don't know whether or not that will still happen, but I think it is one thing that can be done to help New England in general.

A number of us also are already coaching 3man/5man teams, or will be doing that next season. We want to do whatever we can to help the flow of knowledge from the top down.

Another thing teams can to help out the community in general is just to communicate with each other. You show up to a rotation and play some points/games against other teams as usual, but if you smash a team in practice, talk to them about it afterward. Tell them how you beat them, what they did wrong, etc. It takes less than 5 minutes to do that, and you make them better. The next time you play them it will be more of a challenge, which then helps you get better.


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So, moving on... given all the open space right now, what will be created? Will the remaining teams come together in a cooperative way, with new teams being created to fill existing voids and working with the established teams for mutual benefit? Or will it be the same old thing, with lines being drawn and the Fox4 teams being Fox4 teams, Maynard teams being Maynard teams, Riptide teams..... Whether that is by contract or by action.
My guess is it'll be more of the same. Maybe I'm just being cynical.
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Last edited by sumorai : 11-06-2009 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:18 PM #2
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Tyler,

I think what the area is lacking is straight out leadership. There are two types of leadership good and bad that result in good and bad decisions. I'm not saying a good leader will never make a bad decision but will actually learn from it.

You look at all of the successful teams...long standing teams now and in the past. Who is the person you think of first. The leader/manager.

Think of all the teams that were not successful. I think that you would draw a blank...

Good leaders retain players and deal with player turnover well. It's the matter of keeping everyone on the page, vision, and goals. It's like any workplace....

A lot of good leaders have left and not too many have stepped up to the plate and that is going to result in constant discontent and wayward leadership.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:16 PM #3
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after thinking about it it for a while. I think the biggest thing to running a successful team is having an owner, a coach and a captain. There is to much responsibilty and to many personalities for the owner to do everything. Especially when you get into haveing several teams. Now here is the problem. With the way the sport has changed. There are a lot of former players out there that were great at 10 man or 7 man. But X ball is a completely different animal. So finding a good coach that really understands the game is tough. I think if and when you can find money, a good coach and dedicated players. You will have a succesful team. Now finding all of those is the problem.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:23 PM #4
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Money, players and coach?

What about the owner and captain? You said those were the biggest thing...
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:27 PM #5
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Owner is the money. You have to be smart with it or you will end up like Docs. Coach, well a ****ty coach will get you no where except in the deadbox and a captain the team doesnt follow is useless. I guess my point is you need all of these and they all have to be good at what they do to have staying power.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:31 PM #6
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How can we (New England) spread the knowledge of proper xball coaching, proper team management, etc.?

Sure, maybe some people will just watch games and see what other coaches do. Or maybe they'll buy some DVDs and watch. Or maybe buy Ollie Lang's ebook (does it even cover coaching?). Or watch Xplained. Or maybe they'll just guess. Which brings it right back to the problem of reinventing the wheel.

I could go on amazon right now and buy ten different books on coaching traditional sports. Nothing like that exists for paintball. Although, I've certainly considered purchasing a few of those books to read just in case there is some knowledge that is applicable to paintball.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:37 PM #7
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Sumorai I agree those are all great options but finding a person to dedicate that time. Probably for free, that doesnt want to play is tough. And the other issue about coaching books is that many of the newer players these days have never played traditional sports where there coach yelled at them. Most of the players these days can not take constructive critisicm. They take it personally. I have had coaches in rugby, wrestling, jiu jitsu beat my *** if i messed up. Obviously you cant do that in Paintball but how to you teach a kid that he F'd up without him getting mad. I realize I just got off track. Anyway, long story short a good organization is tough to put together as well as finding a good coach.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:44 PM #8
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You can't yell at players you coach in paintball? Tell that to Necco. I'd say he was pretty good at getting results with it, also.


In all seriousness, though... I am, personally, done playing "serious" paintball. Next year, whatever I do, it'll be just for fun. Because of that I'll have more time available. I want to use that time to coach.

I'm not about to do a half-assed job of it. Nor am I going to waste my time and others' time playing a guessing game as to how to do it properly and ensure results. But there are no resources (that I know of) available to me to learn the best ways to coach a paintball team.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:59 PM #9
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I've played rugby and wrestled (might be a surprise to those who have seen me) and I agree with Ty C. My coaches would drop the mitts when we screwed up and take it to us real good. By "showing" us what we did wrong in those types of sports, they really meant beating us. It was effective. Most paintball players are significantly more fragile and flaky, so this approach (yelling, since paintball doesnt involved beating someone up) only works if you do it right.

The biggest problem in paintball is the people who step up to "coach" only teach technique or help a team gameplan. There is no discipline, there is no "team dynamic" past "ok, show up, have fun". If people aren't playing they quit the team. What other sport does that happen? In high school, or even recreation sports when I was a few years younger, if you weren't playing well or what not you sat. That's it. You don't see it in New England that much, from what I have seen. Everyone is afraid to hurt someone else's feelings, because people cannot take criticism.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:02 PM #10
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because everyone has an ego (not the gun) and thinks their the ****. and is the next ollie lang superstar kid.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:27 PM #11
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All,

Many people have great leadership qualities, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are qualified to run or otherwise manage a paintball team.

What I would suggest, is that perhaps someone who has the experience be asked to see if they would be interested in leading a seminar, or clinic if you will, on the basics of team management? I believe Sumorai mentioned something about the thought of DA being asked to coach his team, but that it never happened. Instead of asking him to run one singular team, is it possible that he, or someone with his experience might be interested in conducting a session or seminar on coaching and managing a team? I would think that that would be invaluable to the local scene. That would go a long way towards helping to ensure that those teams stay together.

The main issue with this might be that many don’t feel as if they need this kind of training, and then will go on to use their own playing experience on the field and then try to run a team. The truth is, that even if you are the greatest player, you may be nowhere near qualified to run the team. You would still need guidance. For those of you in the corporate world, you know that there is training available to help managers hone their leadership skills. Even then, there are good managers and bad managers – it’s really not that different in the paintball world. Teams may have a captain, but no real leadership structure, and that can be a team killer. No disrespect is intended towards anyone, but not all pro baseball or football players would make good managers or coaches, despite their skills on the field.

The question I would pose to anyone reading this, is how many individuals who are reading these threads would be interested in attending such a thing if someone like Jeff or DA offered to run it? How many would say that they would like to, or need to expand their knowledge and experience in dealing with team dynamics outside the net? Unfortunately it’s not human nature to admit that you need help, and even in an office environment, many managers are often asked to go to leadership training, they don’t ask to go themselves. Dale Carnegie instructors have seen many a student come through that felt like they didn’t need or want to be there. Jeff also referenced the lack of turnout at clinics as well – ask yourself if one of the reasons you’ve never attended a clinic is because you felt like it was “beneath you”. I’ve actually heard this said – so I know the thought is out there. Before you say it was money thing that was keeping you from going – how many upgrades have you bought for your marker that won’t help your skills or capabilities a darn bit?

Anyway, it was just a thought.

Thanks,

Roy
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:34 PM #12
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Quote:
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All,

Many people have great leadership qualities, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are qualified to run or otherwise manage a paintball team.

What I would suggest, is that perhaps someone who has the experience be asked to see if they would be interested in leading a seminar, or clinic if you will, on the basics of team management? I believe Sumorai mentioned something about the thought of DA being asked to coach his team, but that it never happened. Instead of asking him to run one singular team, is it possible that he, or someone with his experience might be interested in conducting a session or seminar on coaching and managing a team? I would think that that would be invaluable to the local scene. That would go a long way towards helping to ensure that those teams stay together.

The main issue with this might be that many don’t feel as if they need this kind of training, and then will go on to use their own playing experience on the field and then try to run a team. The truth is, that even if you are the greatest player, you may be nowhere near qualified to run the team. You would still need guidance. For those of you in the corporate world, you know that there is training available to help managers hone their leadership skills. Even then, there are good managers and bad managers – it’s really not that different in the paintball world. Teams may have a captain, but no real leadership structure, and that can be a team killer. No disrespect is intended towards anyone, but not all pro baseball or football players would make good managers or coaches, despite their skills on the field.

The question I would pose to anyone reading this, is how many individuals who are reading these threads would be interested in attending such a thing if someone like Jeff or DA offered to run it? How many would say that they would like to, or need to expand their knowledge and experience in dealing with team dynamics outside the net? Unfortunately it’s not human nature to admit that you need help, and even in an office environment, many managers are often asked to go to leadership training, they don’t ask to go themselves. Dale Carnegie instructors have seen many a student come through that felt like they didn’t need or want to be there. Jeff also referenced the lack of turnout at clinics as well – ask yourself if one of the reasons you’ve never attended a clinic is because you felt like it was “beneath you”. I’ve actually heard this said – so I know the thought is out there. Before you say it was money thing that was keeping you from going – how many upgrades have you bought for your marker that won’t help your skills or capabilities a darn bit?

Anyway, it was just a thought.

Thanks,

Roy
I've seen much of the same attitude in AFROTC. You want to see leadership training? We get beat over the head with it, and we still have some people who just plain do not have an ounce of leadership potential in them (simply can't lead others effectively) while some have it, and the training helps them flush out their style and improve.

I would go to a seminar like that. I'm interested in helping out a team of younger players this year, much like Gabe (samurai). While I do feel like I have a LOT of experience in the leadership field, having taught seminars on basic leadership principles and team dynamics in the past, a paintball specific seminar would be a great experience for anyone. Why? Because application to a specific area is not as cut and dry as general concepts and knowledge.

I'll admit, in the past I was under the impression that clinics were geared to newer players. I've since realized that they can ramp in level, so I wouldn't be opposed to going to one if they hold them again in the upcoming year.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:38 PM #13
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Great idea, Roy!
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:06 PM #14
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The question I would pose to anyone reading this, is how many individuals who are reading these threads would be interested in attending such a thing if someone like Jeff or DA offered to run it? How many would say that they would like to, or need to expand their knowledge and experience in dealing with team dynamics outside the net?
Jeff/DA, would either of you be willing to work with team leaders/manages/coaches in the area and help show them how to properly run a team?
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:05 AM #15
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The question I would pose to anyone reading this, is how many individuals who are reading these threads would be interested in attending such a thing if someone like Jeff or DA offered to run it?
Anybody with half a brain would attend. If DA or Jeff is going to take the time to try to pass somthing on I'll be in attendance.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:08 AM #16
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Jeff/DA, would either of you be willing to work with team leaders/manages/coaches in the area and help show them how to properly run a team?
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Anybody with half a brain would attend. If DA or Jeff is going to take the time to try to pass somthing on I'll be in attendance.
Would you pay for this service? Why would they want to do this? This whole concept of bettering the community ONLY makes a difference in the community actually matters. In paintball, in all honesty, the community is more of a problem than a help.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:32 AM #17
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Yes, I'd pay. I've never had a problem with paying more experienced people to teach me things.

I believe everyone should want to make the community better as a whole. Otherwise your competition stagnates and then where's the fun?
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:35 AM #18
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Yes, I'd pay. I've never had a problem with paying more experienced people to teach me things.

I believe everyone should want to make the community better as a whole. Otherwise your competition stagnates and then where's the fun?
Shooting people worse than you? Oh wait, I've never gotten to experience that
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:53 AM #19
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:00 PM #20
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I'd certainly pay.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:02 PM #21
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whats next is the nfl going to ask belichick to run a clinic to teach the rest of the coaches on how to coach so league can catch up?

If the players want to get better have the coaches make them show up at one of the clinics and have them help and teach you the right way to do things
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