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Old 11-05-2009, 10:20 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trogdor444 View Post
while there's probably no teams who are "bound" to play at a field......for example saying Crisis could only play at BPS and Maynard......i believe what Dave means is that for certain teams, it's alot cheaper due to sponsors n what not to play at certain fields

obviously it must cost the 187 guys more to go play at maynard or camelot or matt's outback etc. than it would to stay home at fox4 and play. though there's nothin sayin they can't go to any of these other fields to practice, when budgets of the team and individual players come into play, decisions need to be made.

what's more important, having 50% of your team attend an away practice or 100% attendance at a home field?
Right on...I hear what your saying. I know I was never contractualy obligated to play at any one field...personally. Personally, and this is just my own opinion....I never really saw a good enough reason to travel elsewhere. If we thought it was beneficial...I would like to think we would have (ie. AXBL ref training at fox4 that we went to), but them again...those weren't my calls to make. We always had great teams like yourselves, 187, the ducks, sodus...so on and so on to play on a great, and well laid out field. On days we had noone there...we'd just drill and work on fundamentals. Seemed like it worked out pretty good. The fact that we just dent have a stellar season certainly wasn't due to the lack of resources. Noone to blame there, but ourselves...that's for sure.
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:16 PM #23
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George - I don't have an answer for you - I suspect certain teams where bound (whether by contract or word) to practice at a certain facility.

As for NEX staying at Riptide and practicing against the Canes - I think you got what you needed - a strong team to practice against and low/no cost entry for practices. Best of both worlds - no real reason for you to travel.

Let's look at Crisis and 187. Yes - Crisis came down for one practice when we held the ref training session here. If I remember correctly I let them in for free that day. My guys went to Maynard 3 or 4 times and paid entry. I just don't see that happening in 2010 as my guys had to continually shell out more cash to go practice against them. Unless teams are going to at least attempt to make it an equal share I have no need for them.

You want to know why the Fox 4 teams had such great success in the AXBL and NEPL this season - because they had the strongest home field teams which help each of them get better. You want your team to get better - then you need to sacrifice and pay entry to go play the better teams.

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Old 11-05-2009, 12:54 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox4paintball View Post
You want to know why the Fox 4 teams had such great success in the AXBL and NEPL this season - because they had the strongest home field teams which help each of them get better.
I think a lot of the success of your teams, aside from just having great players, has to do with the teams having fairly static rosters for the last couple years. Roster churn is largely detrimental to teams from what I've seen.

Also, you don't necessarily have to even be a sponsored by a paintball field to be successful. Look at the Monsters this season. They did great, and they were practicing all over the place.


Quote:
You want your team to get better - then you need to sacrifice and pay entry to go play the better teams.
I don't understand why your guys came to play us, then. We absolutely were not a better team than 187, so why come to Maynard and pay to play us?
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:10 PM #25
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Agreed - I don't know why my guys went and played you either.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:38 PM #26
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Do I tell my players hey we have to dish out and extra 30 bucks per person to play at Maynard/fox4 or do we stay at riptide and spend the extra money on paint and play the canes all day?
Not everyone has the canes to play all day if they stay at their home/cheap field.

I wish my team traveled every weekend. I feel we would have done better. Instead we were stuck pretty much playing ourselves and Hartford Eclipse.

Forgive me if I am wrong Jeff, but what did O'Keefe give to New England? Yes he may have cared about everything you say, but basically he just had a team. This is just like any other team that exists. He worked some deals for his team, but as Dave stated even bringing 187 to practice they had to pay entrance when they could have stayed at "home".


I am sure refs won't be that hard to find. If there aren't plenty of teams willing to do it for a sponsorship than they are dumb. I would be willing to ref next year because like this year I don't see myself affording both AXBL and NEPL.


SOOO, basically like every year a couple of teams died. One was low level like most(they played AXBL and World cup...), and one was a bit higher. These players are still here though.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:50 AM #27
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OK, so trying to keep this on topic and inteligent, what has been decided is that the breakup of teams is largely meaningless; teams, players, managers all come and go and paintball persists.

I'm not sure I agree. Everyone is always so willing to point out everything CA has that we don't with weather and the number of teams, players, fields, events, etc... Odd that no one also notices that they have a lot more of the Dave Painter - George Zervas - John Necco type people, and they have ones with a lot more experience. Ron Kilbourne, Rich Telford, Bob Long... Heck, by CA standards, Rich is second or third generation, as he cut his teeth with Youngblood and Bob Long. The point is, there is a very deep pool of management talent out there. And yet, we are so ready to poo-poo that away.

The closest we have to that tradition is the NYX guys - Mooner, Fritz, Rosie... and they are all gone from the national scene.

So, moving on... given all the open space right now, what will be created? Will the remaining teams come together in a cooperative way, with new teams being created to fill existing voids and working with the established teams for mutual benefit? Or will it be the same old thing, with lines being drawn and the Fox4 teams being Fox4 teams, Maynard teams being Maynard teams, Riptide teams..... Whether that is by contract or by action.

Is there any chance, any chance at all, that we try to improve upon what's been done in the past? And, I guess, who really is "we" in this sense? Do the players who are not involved in these changes have any impact or ability to influence the movers and shakers? I mean, when it all comes right down to it, there is no "we" there is only "he" and "he" is the guy who starts the next team or teams. So is everyone else relegated to the sidelines, or can people do something? Can people vote with their wallets? Will people vote with their wallets?
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:16 AM #28
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Ok, in reading peoples posts and trying to gether all the info. I am curious what players and team owners ideas on how to move forward with NE paintball. How can you build a team that grows but stays together. Obviously you might lose or gain a player here or there. But to take a team and bring it to the next level and stand the test of time like the Canes have. What does it take in the current environment. On top of that say you have a d2 PSP/AXBL team what is acceptable to charge players so that money will not be a problem, you wont have an issue with getting good practices at different places.....BUT you still keep player loyalty and accountability. Obviously this is hypotetical but this kind of discussion is what brings about change.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:30 AM #29
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Actually I don't think it will be more of the same - I see it getting worse. I'm getting tired of sending my team(s) around New England for a practice here or there and not really seeing any benefit back to Fox 4. Oh well - maybe I'll do like everyone else and just stay home for practice in 2010.

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Old 11-06-2009, 12:38 PM #30
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well...Out of 4 sundays in a month I'm going to figure that two will be taken up with tournaments (1 playing, 1 reffing). So that leaves us with 2 weeks to practice. There should be enough teams (xball) out there that we should be able to fill up 2 or more fields with teams. The fact is you can't play everyone on a given day anyway. So - what if we held an AXBL practice at Field 1 and an MXL/foXball practice at Field 2? Or maybe we create "rotation" of teams between the practices, but either way you split the teams up and 1/2 go to one field and the other 1/2 go to another field - then switch for the second sunday of the month that you're doing practices on.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:39 PM #31
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:03 PM #32
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Some things in NE never change. people debating about things that were in the past when you have people like Jeff trying to figure out how to change going forward. Honestly who gives a **** about practice last year. what about next year. There seems to be a lot of options in terms of Xball leagues which is great. But how is the landscape going to change in regards to teams, management, sponsorship, etc... How can NE actually move forward because I was in NE paintball for like 12 or 13 years and move to the ATL 2 years ago and from what i see and hear. Nothing has changed except different teams and names. I do have to say Dave has done a great job at keeping 187/fox 4 together through the years.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:07 PM #33
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OK, split off another thread on where we practice and why.

Trying to keep topical.
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