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Old 11-09-2009, 07:59 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cww516 View Post
i realize it's borderline trolling for coming into a thread with this title just because i saw you posted in it, but everything you've said so far is amazingly ignorant. ball breaks, you're out, end of story. does cheating still happen even though it's against the rules? yes. does it make for some great stories sometimes? without a doubt. does that make it right? nope. i know i'm kinda the pot calling the kettle black here, but i think it's about time you got off your high horse and stopped preaching the "the pros do it, so it must be OK" and the "win at any cost" bull****.

/rant.
me?
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:01 AM #23
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Part, yes, cheaters are a part of every sport. Accepted? No.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:46 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_PB_Newb View Post
Gotta practice wiping or you're gonna get caught so easily. All about flinch control, ref manipulation, etc.
Do you practice reacting to being overshot? Once I catch someone wiping against my team I will take the penalty from overshooting the crap out of them in order to give back to them what they took from us. I will unload a hopper on someone if I catch them wiping.

Playing on is a lot different than wiping. Playing on you have a slight chance of being innocently wrong. Wiping is a deliberate act and you know you are guilty of cheating.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:55 AM #25
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Originally Posted by Paradox313 View Post
You are the type of player that disgusts me. Are you that self centered that you are willing to do severe physical harm to another player just because they cheated?
Confrontation is one thing, and probably won't do much, but to repetitively shoot them in the ear is downright repulsive, and extremely dangerous.
and I care? - physical harm is yet another dirty part of the tournament world. If I can make you afraid of me coming to bunker you then I have the edge. If I shoot someone in the neck instead of the pack 3 times - chances are it's because I don't like them... chances are it's because they are people that spin, play on, or wipe. Those people will never make it anywhere in paintball.
sorry, but it's still paintball - if you're worried about getting "harmed physically" by a paintball breaking on your head then you're in the wrong damn sport.

oh and by the way - i've only been playing tournament paintball for about a little over a year, prior to that I had never stepped on an airball field. I played in the woods with friends and on scenario - I saw FAR more cheaters in those formats than in tournament play. Being a paintball photographer and traveling to many many events and watching from the sidelines you'd think I would have seen some crazy amounts of cheaters.. but I haven't.
Also yesturday my team just won the series Championships of a local event series... no wiping involved.

Wiping a hit is like pulling the golfball out of the hole after Tiger Wood's drops a hole-in-one.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:05 PM #26
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Do you practice reacting to being overshot? Once I catch someone wiping against my team I will take the penalty from overshooting the crap out of them in order to give back to them what they took from us. I will unload a hopper on someone if I catch them wiping.

Playing on is a lot different than wiping. Playing on you have a slight chance of being innocently wrong. Wiping is a deliberate act and you know you are guilty of cheating.
I dont care, overshoot me. I dont step on the field expecting to not be shot.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:34 PM #27
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Originally Posted by Little_PB_Newb View Post
Gotta practice wiping or you're gonna get caught so easily. All about flinch control, ref manipulation, etc.
--------------------------------------------

{old man mode}

I hesitate to think – how will people like this raise their children? Do they have this attitude for everything in their lives, not just paintball, and will they pass it on to their kids? I can only imagine they will teach them something like this:

“Remember, my child, there is no such thing as honor: there is only victory. If you have to cheat to win, cheat. If you have to lie to get ahead, lie. If you have to break the law to get power, fame, and fortune, then the law does not exist for you. You are above right and wrong. You have no need of a conscience… only glory.”

Now, what they’ll leave unsaid then they teach their children these things is this:

“Also, my child, if ever you are put in a situation you can’t lie, cheat, or steal you way out of… run! Because you have spent your time becoming a great cheater, not a great player. You are a good player, and cheating makes you [i]appear[i/] to be a great player, but when cheating isn’t an option and you’re faced with someone who really is great, then you will stand no chance. When a test comes due and you aren’t able to steal answers – then fake sick, because you spent your time cheating instead of learning, and you will graduate knowing only how to cheat – not how to write, or engineer, or design, or program, or choreograph, or heal, or debate. One day the bill for your cheating will come due. It may cost you a tournament, or a scholarship, or your job, your family, or even your life. Choose wisely.”

{/old man mode}

TL/DR, I know, but it had to be said. Rule idea: any team that accumulates X number of wiping penalties in a certain stretch is banhammered, period, and its entire roster is blackflagged in that league. Doubt it would help much, but at least it would start to weed out players like this.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:56 PM #28
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It's paintball, not parenting and life lessons 101. Paintball costs too much in canada to not win. If no one else in my league cheated then I wouldn't, but I'm not going to follow an honor code that isn't there just to play with a handicap.
You dont understand what he is saying because you are young and ignorant. What he is saying is that wiping and cheating shouldn't even be a consideration because your parents should have taught you better morals. If you can't afford to play, then don't play.

There should be bigger penalties for being caught cheating in a tournament.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:05 PM #29
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Cheating is very much a part of the game, whether your biased opinion includes your parents' morals or not.

Good players and bad players alike cheat, all the way from D5 to Pro. There is no ground in the "if you cheat you suck" argument. Arguing about it being bad because mommy and daddy said so is a moot point. You could argue about morals and character until your face turns blue, but you're not going to convince anyone who flat out doesn't care what you think about them.

For me, cheating comes down to knowing when. The majority of the time, I'd rather just leave the field. It's a huge risk, and penalties suck. When it means the difference between making money or going home, you get to make a choice.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:39 PM #30
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Originally Posted by Little_PB_Newb View Post
It's paintball, not parenting and life lessons 101. Paintball costs too much in canada to not win.
If so, then mate, you need a better job. I can afford to play fine without scratching a legitimate hit.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:39 PM #31
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Originally Posted by Little_PB_Newb View Post
It's paintball, not parenting and life lessons 101. Paintball costs too much in canada to not win. If no one else in my league cheated then I wouldn't, but I'm not going to follow an honor code that isn't there just to play with a handicap.
Integrity, makes players better, I'm along the lines with most of the poeple that don't support cheating. In 2008 we won the vicious series without cheating and I hold my players to the fact that we want to win without cheating. Does it happen without a doubt, does it makes you a better player for knowing how to cheat well, no way. Just my 2 cents
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:15 PM #32
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me?
my bad, a few more posts showed up between mine and yours, but it looks like you figured that out on your own.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:18 PM #33
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Wiping is only part of paintball the way that hiding cards in your sleeve is part of poker. Unfortunately, paintball officials have simply become more lax about dealing with the cheaters than professional card players have.

Wiping undermines the entire purpose of shooting paintballs instead of pellets, foam darts, or infrared light beams at each other.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:25 PM #34
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and I care? - physical harm is yet another dirty part of the tournament world. If I can make you afraid of me coming to bunker you then I have the edge. If I shoot someone in the neck instead of the pack 3 times - chances are it's because I don't like them... chances are it's because they are people that spin, play on, or wipe. Those people will never make it anywhere in paintball.
sorry, but it's still paintball - if you're worried about getting "harmed physically" by a paintball breaking on your head then you're in the wrong damn sport.
well said about physical harm, i dont step on a field to maliciously and physically hurt people but if you put a ball in a dudes ear instead of his pack, the next point you play against him he may just stick his hopper out an extra inch or so. and i tend to do it to players i know will either play on or wipe. i dont like inflicting pain unless its needed.

call that cheating if you would like but that would rarely happen if other players didnt wipe. like once in a tournament i saw a guy wipe a hopper hit off, i got up ran him down and put 4 in his neck. next point he was playing sloppy and i got to shoot him easily.

so in a way i cheating is a part of the game as well as malicious actions. also i would like to say cheating is like recalls. if the amount of money spent in lawsuits is substantially less than the profit they make they wont have a recall. just like cheating, if the penalty assed on you is less than the damage you do to the other team it is almost worth it.

so i mean i dont like cheating but the pros and cons of it are what people doing it. i dont but i dont want to sound biased
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:31 PM #35
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Wiping is only part of paintball the way that hiding cards in your sleeve is part of poker.
Not really.

You have to go out of your way to hide cards in your sleeves. Planning ahead of time, practicing doing it without being noticed, etc.. Wiping is a spur of the moment cheat. I think the poker analogy would work better with people setting their guns to illegal modes with cheater boards.

Unless of course you're just that guy who really does practice cheating, in which case I guess you nailed it haha.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:36 PM #36
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Cheating is cheating, fella. It's against the rules, the player knows it is, yet does it anyway. The sleight of hand in my analogy might not be identical, but the concept is the same.

Weasels doing weasely ****, that's it.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:39 PM #37
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Wiping undermines the entire purpose of shooting paintballs instead of pellets, foam darts, or infrared light beams at each other.


or shouting bang, bang I got you.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:41 PM #38
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Simple. Bonus ball cheaters. Problem solved. I hate cheating, in any form, in any aspect of life. In relationships, in college (**** REALLY pisses me off), in paintball, etc.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:46 PM #39
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Cheating is cheating, fella. It's against the rules, the player knows it is, yet does it anyway. The sleight of hand in my analogy might not be identical, but the concept is the same.

Weasels doing weasely ****, that's it.
Right, cheating is cheating. Potatoes are potatoes, and frogs are frogs. What's your point?

If you're making the (incorrect) assumption that all cheating is the same, then please refer to your PSP rule book, where you'll see that different penalties are assessed for breaking different rules. All forms of cheating are not penalized equally, as some forms of cheating result in a slap on the wrist, and others result in a severe penalty.

Don't play PSP? Try CFOA, USPL, SPPL, GFOA, SPCS, NEPL, AXBL/CXBL, SPCS, or any other tournament series.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:02 PM #40
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They all agree it is cheating, which is the key thing to note here. The question was raised: "Is wiping part of a tournament?", and the answer is, quite simply: "Yes, in the way that it is mentioned in the rules as being illegal and punishable." While wiping is a part of paintball in a way, it isn't a natural part of playing the game. The way types of cheating are punishable in the sport is irrelevant in the frame of this question.

On a more personal note, I think cheating should be dealt with like it was many years ago: you (and possibly your team) booted from the game, and under some circumstances, blacklisted.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:45 PM #41
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Originally Posted by Little_PB_Newb View Post
It's paintball, not parenting and life lessons 101. Paintball costs too much in canada to not win. If no one else in my league cheated then I wouldn't, but I'm not going to follow an honor code that isn't there just to play with a handicap.
guess what, you aren't a good player, I know this from experience. Now I'm going to have to keep an eye on you in your local tournament series, because i sometimes ref it. Also you don't get paid based on your performance, I'm afraid you aren't that good. Good luck getting on an mxl or cxbl team with this attitude. I know from experience you wouldn't work out, cheating doesn't help anyone but the other team, penalties are just far too severe.

Also not many people in your league cheat, most of the calls I made were unobvious hits. I'll just start keeping my eyes on you
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:56 PM #42
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Is it a part of the game? Yes. Should it be? No. Are people always going to rob, cheat, steal? Yes.
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