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Old 10-24-2009, 01:52 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel. View Post
if you can kill a virus for killing a man, then you should be able to kill a man for killing a man imo
'Tis the difference between moral absolutism and moral relativism.

From a Christian perspective, the Bible is the word of god brought to give guidance to man. The laws do not apply to other beings so the bacteria and viruses are not bound to the "eye for an eye" rule. Similarly, man is given "dominion" over the animals (and, one might extend, other living organisms that were not known at the time). Thus, killing bacteria, viruses, and cows does not apply to "eye for an eye" either.

From a philosophical perspective, we are getting into a "value of life" discussion. Most people believe that there is an intrinsic value to all life, however most also tend to assign relative value to different life. For example, most of us would save our own child before a stranger if we were in a burning building. We buy dolphin-safe tuna... but not tuna-safe tuna. We put out rat poison and mouse traps but condemn Japanese whalers.

Of course, I am taking us far from the OP, so I'll shut up now.
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:32 PM #23
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Just in my opinion, I don't think that's a valid reason on why the OT and NT should contradict each other. Besides that, it's a little dangerous to separate the OT and NT like that. I never saw one passage in the New Testament that said we shouldn't follow Old Testament laws.

The reality is, God gave us the law, and all his commandments, in the first five books of the Bible. What happened is that Jews misinterpreted these laws, and Jesus interpreted them correctly for the Jews.

See, Jesus had two functions. The first and foremost was to be the savior of the world through his blood that was shed. The one everyone knows about.

The other was that he was a prophet. This one is widely known but not talked about that much. Much of his teaching and talking dealt with impending national judgment on Israel for their hypocritical ways (which was in turn misinterpreted by later Christians to speak of eternal torments), but much more of his teaching dealt with the laws. Jews constantly asked him questions about the law, and he answered them in parables and paradigms. Much of Jesus' sermon on the mount was Jesus showing the Jews what the Ten Commandments really meant.

See, Jews thought that if they could keep the law, they could make it to heaven and not be obliterated by a wrathful God. So they sought to keep the law rather than rely on God who gives salvation. This resulted in a very legalistic, hypocritical Jewish society that was completely opposite of what God wanted. God wanted a relationship with Israel, for Israel to be his people and for him to be their God. Jews looked to the law rather than God and did everything all wrong.

Jesus interpreted the ten commandments in the sermon to show Jews that no matter what, they can't keep the law, and they have to rely on God for salvation, rather than the law God gave them, which was only meant in the first place to make Jews reliant on God. Such a beautiful paradox. Jews misinterpreted the law, and God's reasoning for the law, greatly. That is why Jesus came as a prophet to show Jews the right way.
This doesn't change the fact that it IS contradictory. But I do agree with what you say.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:17 AM #24
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Just in my opinion, I don't think that's a valid reason on why the OT and NT should contradict each other. Besides that, it's a little dangerous to separate the OT and NT like that. I never saw one passage in the New Testament that said we shouldn't follow Old Testament laws.

The reality is, God gave us the law, and all his commandments, in the first five books of the Bible. What happened is that Jews misinterpreted these laws, and Jesus interpreted them correctly for the Jews.

See, Jesus had two functions. The first and foremost was to be the savior of the world through his blood that was shed. The one everyone knows about.

The other was that he was a prophet. This one is widely known but not talked about that much. Much of his teaching and talking dealt with impending national judgment on Israel for their hypocritical ways (which was in turn misinterpreted by later Christians to speak of eternal torments), but much more of his teaching dealt with the laws. Jews constantly asked him questions about the law, and he answered them in parables and paradigms. Much of Jesus' sermon on the mount was Jesus showing the Jews what the Ten Commandments really meant.

See, Jews thought that if they could keep the law, they could make it to heaven and not be obliterated by a wrathful God. So they sought to keep the law rather than rely on God who gives salvation. This resulted in a very legalistic, hypocritical Jewish society that was completely opposite of what God wanted. God wanted a relationship with Israel, for Israel to be his people and for him to be their God. Jews looked to the law rather than God and did everything all wrong.

Jesus interpreted the ten commandments in the sermon to show Jews that no matter what, they can't keep the law, and they have to rely on God for salvation, rather than the law God gave them, which was only meant in the first place to make Jews reliant on God. Such a beautiful paradox. Jews misinterpreted the law, and God's reasoning for the law, greatly. That is why Jesus came as a prophet to show Jews the right way.
In this reasoning all that would be happening is trading one set of rules for another even if it is only "further clarification".
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:33 PM #25
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The Bible has been corrupted by man thats why
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:21 PM #26
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Originally Posted by C_lawgik View Post
The Bible has been corrupted by man thats why
except for the book of mormon, of course.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:09 PM #27
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except for the book of mormon, of course.
Ooh! You want some ice for that burn?
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:12 PM #28
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Why do you ask? If you believe it on faith, you shouldn't care. If you think its rediculous, why are you asking about it on here?
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:58 PM #29
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Originally Posted by C_lawgik View Post
The Bible has been corrupted by man thats why
Agree. Although, some of the contradictions are for perfectly logical reasons that make sense, but I agree that the Bible has been corrupted by man, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
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Why do you ask? If you believe it on faith, you shouldn't care. If you think its rediculous, why are you asking about it on here?
I'd bet it's just someone's excuse to try to disprove Christianity/ Judaism/ Islam. Although, the fact that it is contradicting is something that you can't just ignore if you're part of that faith.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:06 AM #30
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Why do you ask? If you believe it on faith, you shouldn't care. If you think its rediculous, why are you asking about it on here?
What exactly did you think an OT forum on religion and philosophy was for?
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:49 AM #31
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Don't have time to fully explicate, but here's a great read on the matter. It's short too for all your ADHD folk.

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.../eyeforeye.htm
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:16 AM #32
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except for the book of mormon, of course.
Dont be ignorant. The Bible and The Book of Mormon are not the same. If you have have honest questions about my faith please follow the link in my sig and we can discuss them.
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Old 10-29-2009, 03:31 AM #33
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Dont be ignorant. The Bible and The Book of Mormon are not the same. If you have have honest questions about my faith please follow the link in my sig and we can discuss them.
Definitely not the same.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:10 PM #34
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Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
Definitely not the same.
Oh, all the monstrosities instantly associated with a quote like this...

Your article describes the eye for an eye, but there are other so-called contradictions as well.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:51 PM #35
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Originally Posted by mugendai View Post
"eye for an eye," old testament
"you cannot kill what you did not create," lyrics from Duality by Slipknot

yes agree it is very contradicting but the old testament was "fulfilled" by Jesus
Fixed.

I'm fairly certain there's nothing in the Bible that says "you cannot kill what you did not create". Though I could be wrong, I'd like to see the verse, because it seems clearly that someone's got their Bible-on-tape and their Slipknot album mixed up.

Concerning perceived contradictions in the Bible, I'd say 99% if not all can be explained by a) looking at the context of the verses in queston, and b) having a clear understanding of the history involved in Scriptural events and the culture of the various peoples mentioned therein as well.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:10 PM #36
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Fixed.

I'm fairly certain there's nothing in the Bible that says "you cannot kill what you did not create". Though I could be wrong, I'd like to see the verse, because it seems clearly that someone's got their Bible-on-tape and their Slipknot album mixed up.

Concerning perceived contradictions in the Bible, I'd say 99% if not all can be explained by a) looking at the context of the verses in queston, and b) having a clear understanding of the history involved in Scriptural events and the culture of the various peoples mentioned therein as well.
There's a line in before i forget that is in some book of the bible. I forget exactly.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:17 AM #37
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Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
matt 10:28

thats the closest I can think of that gets close to you cannot kill what you did not create
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:22 PM #38
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do you have any academic source that would agree with you on that point for me to peruse? That's quite an interesting opinion.
It's just a muse of mine. The new/old testaments, as well as other religious texts are representative of the cultures and time period they came from. Funny how there's so many different cultural interpretations of Jesus printed among a dozen or more cultures, with their own cultural tinge, isn't it? I'm sure if I looked, I could find an academic source, but this is based entirely on my own thought and conjecture, accept it as you will.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:35 PM #39
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It's just a muse of mine. The new/old testaments, as well as other religious texts are representative of the cultures and time period they came from. Funny how there's so many different cultural interpretations of Jesus printed among a dozen or more cultures, with their own cultural tinge, isn't it? I'm sure if I looked, I could find an academic source, but this is based entirely on my own thought and conjecture, accept it as you will.
I think the fact that Jesus fits into every major religion as part of their religion instead of him making a whole new one proves some of your point.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:43 PM #40
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:11 PM #41
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Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
matt 10:28

thats the closest I can think of that gets close to you cannot kill what you did not create
but that is not its intention. the verse is basically saying from a spiritual point of view: why worry about someone who can only kill the pyhsical but you continue to live in the "spiritual" so to speak. instead fear one that can destroy both
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:58 PM #42
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Dont be ignorant. The Bible and The Book of Mormon are not the same. If you have have honest questions about my faith please follow the link in my sig and we can discuss them.
It's not ignorant to point out the apparent hypocrisy of charging that the Bible has been corrupted by man whilst filling your sig with clear implications that you follow the Book of Mormon (which you presumably do not view as corrupted in the same way).
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