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Old 09-30-2003, 12:31 PM #1
pony5oh
 
 
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Will the real Armotech please stand up!

So who is the real ARMOTECH? I have been hearing alot of conflicting stuff lately...Is one really better than the other or are they both pretty much working out of there garage?
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Old 10-03-2003, 05:31 AM #2
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You need to clarify your question. There are only a couple of Armotech distributors around. One in Canada and one in the US. Armotech USA and Paintballarmory.com were pretty much one and the same. They are no longer distributors of Armotech products.
The current distributors in North America are paintballgear.ca in Canada and Armotech.us in NJ
I don't know how big paintballgear.ca in is but the distributor here in the US Armotech.us is probably does not have a large physical presence. The products are manufactured in Taiwan.
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Old 10-03-2003, 02:12 PM #3
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I got most of my stuff at some place in NJ, tactical somthin...they all sound the same...Is that the distrubter?
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Old 10-03-2003, 07:09 PM #4
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Although Armotech.us is the distributor and Tacticalmarkers.com is an on line retailer they are owned by the same individual. The distributor only sells to dealers while tacticalmarkers.com sells retail on line. There is no store or warehouse or showroom of any kind that we know of.
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Old 10-04-2003, 12:24 AM #5
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So why is there all this hubub about two different sites...very confusing to me the only difference seems to be an "M" in the web address?
To be honest I havnt been to happy with the product so far, ist it gonna be the same stuff just with somone else peddeling it? What does the two companies do different?
I just dont see the hassel
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Old 12-03-2003, 10:57 PM #6
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Armotech.us=Armotech.net=Wg series and all of the "planets"
Armotech.com said they were just going to abandon the whole line "*The following products are discontinued and no longer
available or in production.
WG-65 (Replaced by SIM-4)
WG-75 (All Models)
MARS LT
MARS EVO
MARS Special Edition
Pluto
Zeus (All Models)
Zeus G2 ( All Models) "
a quote from Armotech.com noting that they state nothing of having current replacements for any speedball markers, which is frankly stupid (as far as the Nemisis goes "(coming soon)". The .com camp seems too flappy with their mouths when I talked to them on the phone and seemed scared (did not know how much to say) They seem like a good company, They have always told me what was up when I was a dealer for them and I never had any problems with the .com and only lost dealership because they told me that they could not come across with the paintball guns for at least a month which is something the .net could do and I did not want to play both sides of the fence.
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Old 12-07-2003, 03:16 PM #7
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Okay folks.. here is what I know....... I deal armo tech stuff from my shop and have put up with alot of BS from both camps...

Armotech.com..... isnt armo tech they are cheap rip offs of them..

Armotech.us and armotech.net are the new US distributers of them and sell the guns from there source of manufacturing. Paint Guns France.

Armotech.com's stuff is made locally some where in cali and are basocally bad clones using leftover parts from when they dealt with the real armotech...

Just remember.. just because it says armo tech on the box and gun doesnt mean it really is the gun...
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Old 12-07-2003, 04:55 PM #8
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I don't think you're quite right. Both claim to be the real armotech and I don't really know who to believe but all the parties involved have lied.
I don't think Armotech.net products are made in France and Armotech.us products are not made in California. I think they're all made in Taiwan. Different factories, same factory, it really doesn't matter because it appears to be the same crap. So if someone questions the quality of one they're questioning the quality of both.
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Old 12-08-2003, 02:59 AM #9
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I don't know if any of you have ever dealt with Taiwan/China before but maybe I can help you undersant a bit how it works.

In Taiwan there are literaly thousands of companies that make stuff, all kinds of stuff. Lamps, monitors, cdroms, paintguns, clothes, bottles, you name it there is a company that makes it. These companies do not make the stuff to sell under their own brand name, but rather they private label it. So for example if I want to make a new radio with the brand name JohnTunes, I will go to taiwan and search for a radio manufacturer. When I find a suitable company I give them my designs for my radio and they make it and put my logo on it. In most cases I have the radio maker sign a contract that says they will not make my radio for anyone else. So I have just become a manufacturer of my very own radio. I don't own a factory, or an assembly plant or anything related to producing the product. This is called outsourcing your manufacturing. As the owner of Johntunes all I do is market my product and sell them as they are shipped to me.

The practice of outsourcing manufacturing is very common these days and you would be surprised how many of the things you use every day are not actually made by the company whos brand appears on it. Take your computer monitor for example, there are very few actual monitor factories in the world. Whether you have a viewsonic, MAG, GEM, or whatever most are made in the same factory the only difference is the design submitted to the factory for production. Your motherboard is the same way. Asus, intel, Shuttle etc often are made right on the same assembly line.

Companies that do this type or private labeling are called ODMs(original design manufacturers). Meaning you subit a design and they make it the way you want. Most of the paintguns you see on the market today are made this way. I can go to taiwan right now and find hundreds of companies that will make my paintgun exactly the way I want it and put my name on it.

Now here is the dangerous part. There are two ways these ODM companies can screw you.

1. If the company I hire to make my paintgun is dishonest or greedy they will sell my design to any joe schmo who comes along and wants it. I have a contract with them that says they wont but in reality the cost and difficulty for me to go after them in Taiwan to put a stop to it is more than most companies can bear. Finding a reputable manufacturer is crucial.

2. the company I hired to do my manufacturing is again dishonest and they decide they no longer need John and instead will sell my Johntunes radio under thier own name or my name ,again I have little recourse to stop it. I can try to get court orders to prevent radios with the name Johntunes from being imported, but its at a very high cost and not necessarily going to succeed. It is a slow drawn out process and can take years to resolve. The company in taiwan can simply change their name or change the port they ship into and it becomes very difficult for US customs to stop all the entries.


I don't know the cisrcumstances surrounding this matter, but if I had to guess I would say they are involved in scenario 2. I work in the computer industry and I have seen this play out at least 20 times. In the end the US company either finds a new manufacturer who is more trustworthy or simply lives with the problem until the legal system takes its course.

The moral of the story is if you are going to outsource your manufacturing make sure the company you deal with is trustworthy. Its very hard to figure out who is trustworthy and who is not when dealing with Asia. Many Asian companies are simply dishonest and there is nothing you can do. This is especialy true when it comes to simpler products like Computer mice. Paintguns are not exactly high technology devices so I suspect they fall into this category. I am in no way saying all asian comanies are dishonest, but there are a lot that are.

Last edited by johnlight : 12-08-2003 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 12-09-2003, 09:53 AM #10
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Armotech.NET is the REAL armotech...
Armotech.COM is lieing about everythig on there website
THEY ARE NOT made in CALIFORNIA... they are made in Tiwan and then assembled here.. what they are doing is axactly what the guy above is saying.. they found a company in Tiwan the made the markers then they buy the markers from them and put there logo on it...

Armotech.NET the real Armotech!
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Old 12-09-2003, 10:12 AM #11
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It's obvious you have some loyalty to Armotech.net but in reality they are all lying to some extent. There is no reason to believe one party more than the other. I think the Lin's are just as capable of screwing over people as Haisam. The Lin's have done nothing but lie about their relationship to Armotechdepot and Warsensor.
As for the product, I am sure most of the components are made in Taiwan. There may be some parts added here in the states or Canada but the majority is probably made in Taiwan. They may even be made in the same factories. Yes, I am convinced that Armotech.net does the same thing. They contract a factory(factories) to make he components for them. Same product, different name. I bet I could have an WG or WS or SIM-4 made for me too. Just like I could have a "Spyder" made for me.
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Old 12-09-2003, 11:58 AM #12
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XNUKE I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

Armotech.net... has not ever said that theres was made in USA have they????? they dont lie... Armotech.com does nothing but lie!! im not even going to talk to you XNUKE your not worth it your a freakin idiot..
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Old 12-09-2003, 12:45 PM #13
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Are you for real? You sound like a 14 year old but your profile says your 25. The Lin's have lies about owning Armotechdepot and warsensor. They are listed as owning the trademark for warsensor. Armotechdepot.com domain is registered to the same person(supposedly Richard Lin's wife) with a contact at warsensor.com. Go look for yourself. They deny the connection. That is a lie.
You've got your head so far up your *** you can't see the truth.
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Old 12-09-2003, 03:30 PM #14
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and we all know this.. and they even know this.. WHO CARES.. you are a freak... what it comes down to is the REAL armotech.. warsensor and depot have nothing to do with the name armotech...

what matters is that Armotech.com is posing as the real Armotech and they are NOT.

dude get over the warsensor thing ...

Who is the one that lies about there product being made in the US?
Who is the one that lies about the accuracy of there gun?
Who is the one that lies about the WG, Mars, Zeus ect have been discontinued?..
Who is the one that had to change the name of the markers and also change the LOGO...
Also who has pages and pages and pages of stuff in there legal section of the webapge.. b/c they are scared?.
Also who has pictures of there so called warehouse with there so called quality control even though one of the markers shows plain as day missing a part... it is missing a sling mount....

.COM = liers

just trust me on this one... Xnuke... i dont know what you have going through that crazy head of yours...
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Old 12-09-2003, 04:53 PM #15
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If it was me (and also going off of all the BS) why would I drop the ENTIRE line of paintball guns ever made, instead of just the ones people are not buying and basicly start all over again.
If this is not a hint the you never got it to begin with
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Old 12-09-2003, 06:01 PM #16
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Matt311 I was over at the .net forum and guess who is posting all over the place. You. So your bias is obvious. I don't know what they are paying you but it must be pretty good.

I was over at the .com website and I'll be darned if I can find a single mention of the SIM4 being made in the USA. They talk about assembly and inspection but nowhere on that site that I could find does it claim that the markers are made in the USA. The only place any of this is claimed is by people on the .net site and guys like you. It is highly likely that these markers are assembled in the US, but even that is not claimed directly on the site.


How can you prove the accuracy test is lie? Do you have a SIM marker or are you just going off what your buddies have told you who themselves probably don't have one. Do you have proof?

According to the .com site the models you mentioned are discontinued. Meaning they no longer sell them. I don't see them being offered on their site so I have to assume they are no longer selling them. If somebody else is making them and selling them well more power to them, but it does not appear that the .com site wishes to carry them or is producing them any longer. Hence they are discontinued. Makes sense to me.

As for the logo change I see that as an attempt to differentiate themselves from what they believe are fake products. I would probably do the same thing to avoid customer confusion. Plus I imagine that there was a potential conflict with the old logo because it looks almost exactly like the DYE logo turned sideways.


As for the legal section I suspect that because they think someone is copying their stuff they are being extra cautious about not letting it happen again. If you found out somebody was copying your stuff would you not go out and try to make sure it does not happen again? From the wording of that page it looks as if it was written by an attorney which is probably a smart thing to do.


One last thing. How do you know the sling loop is not just on its side? They do swivel do they not? Or maybe they did indeed miss it during QC, but you cannot say for sure can you?

It seems to me that you are grasping at straws to somehow defend your own interest. I have to agree with the guy a few posts back about you being probably 14 instead of 25. You clearly do not understand how to present valid arguments as each claim you make is either unsubstantiated or can be countered with a logical explanation. I don't know who is telling the truth in this case or not, but I do know your arguments are very weak. Next time bring some proof when making accusations. You will be much more believable.
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Old 12-09-2003, 07:23 PM #17
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this image posted all over the Armotech.com site ... and under it it says "proudly made in the USA" .. its ok maybe you didnt have your glasses on ?....

i cant prove its a lie about the accuracy test.. but come on... anyone can do that test and say there marker shoots better..

but they are not discontinued.. they are still being mass produced and upgrades for all of them are being added almost everyday.

why would the "real" armotech have to change the logo?.... and then have to change the name of a marker from the WG which has its name all over from previouse years.. and make the risk to change it to a SIM ??

as far as the legal section.. they are scared so they tried to make themself feel better by writing all this legal mumbo jumbo which dosnt mean a thing b/c they dont own the name Armotech ..

hows that?..

how much does armotech.com pay you?

im right just as much as you are right...
if you think im wrong then why cant i think you are wrong.

youll learn in the end
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Old 12-09-2003, 08:21 PM #18
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Matt311 once again you prove your lack of intelligence.
I have seen that logo, and it only appears twice that I can tell, and it seems to pertain to the specific item listed each time it appears.
http://www.armotech.com/sightmount.asp
&
http://www.armotech.com/EliteRail.asp

From what I can tell they are saying those two items are Made in the USA. That logo does not appear on any of the gun descriptions so I wonder how you can say it appears all over the site, and how you can assume that by placing that image on one page relating to a specific item that they they are claiming all of their products are made in the USA. You are simply not telling the truth or skewing the facts to prove your point.

As for your accuracy statement, thank you for proving me correct. As I suspected, you have no proof whatsoever that they are lying about the accuracy test nor have you any reason other than your own bias to believe it is not true. So your claim that they are lying is not a fact but simply your opinion.

As for changing names, why did Tippmann name their newest gun the A-5? The M98 was very succesful so why change the name? Or why does Kingman give all of their guns different Names? Because its a new model! I find it strange that even a 14 year old can not grasp the concept.

Your explanation for the legal section simply does not make sense. How would putting that disclaimer there make anyone feel better? Virtually every site you go to has a legal disclaimer so it would actually surprise me if it were not there. And do you have proof that they do not own the name Armotech? Have you researched it with the Trademark office for yourself or is this more mumbo jumbo that you heard from a friend of a friends cousins brothers uncle?

Frankly the only reason I ever came into this topic to begin with is because I wanted to get a good looking marker for scenario games. I came here to see what people had to say about the Armotech products because they seem to be the most realistic on the market. Not only do I find no information about performance, but I find people like you simply flooding the forum with propaganda about real and fake ones. I will be buying whichever performs better if I can ever get an unbiased opinion from someone who has actually used both.

It also to me that you have put some sort of negative reply in every thread in this topic in an attempt to convince people of your opinion. If you are so right why do you have to do that? If it were that simple there would be only one Armotech. You have yet to prove that you have any credibility whatsoever or that anything you claim is true. As I said before you could be right, but you don't seem to be able to prove it.
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Old 12-09-2003, 09:24 PM #19
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.. ahhh haaa... damn it.. Hasaim took off all the made in the USA stuff on the Markers also.. hes smarter than i thought... he did have that logo on every page.. he must have figured it out and then he changed it with the videos and pictures thing.. lol ..

whatever.. im not going to argue with you.. you do what you want... people who dont know are getting mislead to the .COM site .. maybe you should buy a WG65 also and compare them?... or maybe we could get a SIM-4 to compare it ..... hummm let ask Hasaim if he could do this... if I had both i would not be Bias to either with a fair testing...
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Old 12-09-2003, 09:39 PM #20
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I think you've already demonstrated that you are biased.
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Old 12-10-2003, 09:40 AM #21
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no im seriouse.. i wouldnt be bias to eiher product.. i only go for what WORKS good.. and what LOOKS good and what has a WARRENTY ... just like buying a car... good performance .. gotsta look good... and has to have a 5-10 year warrenty... which ever one has all the qualitys win... no matter who makes it may it be .COM or.NET ...
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