[FrmrSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

Their profit margin is huge, don't gimme that ****. And why would I yell at the automotive industry? I'll never buy a new car unless I really REALLY want one. Otherwise I can just as easily buy a used car that works as good.

Don't get me wrong, Dye makes good guns, I love the DM's and PM's, but I don't see the logic in paying 1600 for a new one, when last years or the year befores model works as good for half the price.

Which is why the NT (or any new marker) simply isn't for you. When someone asked me if the NT is worth it..my reply is "If you have the money it definately is". Would I say that it will instantly make you twice as fast and boost your G's off the break, no. but it is an insanely comfortable marker that I really like.. But really there is alot more behind the marker than what you think. The mark up is there, but not as much as you think it is. Like I said, just the machine time per marker is huge. And the only reason it's less expensive for companies is because they have dedicated machines to do each task, instead of having to change a setup on each machine for every o-ring groove, or every air passage..

Like I said if you really want to find out the cost of making a marker, go to a competent machinest and have him make one for you. Then you will see just how much it costs. Hell you said you like cockers, take a merlin extrusion (which does most of the hard work for you) and see how much it costs.

btw your jeans comment made me giggle..

[RavagersTC]

Originally Posted by FrmrSpecialist

Which is why the NT (or any new marker) simply isn't for you. When someone asked me if the NT is worth it..my reply is "If you have the money it definately is". Would I say that it will instantly make you twice as fast and boost your G's off the break, no. but it is an insanely comfortable marker that I really like.. But really there is alot more behind the marker than what you think. The mark up is there, but not as much as you think it is. Like I said, just the machine time per marker is huge. And the only reason it's less expensive for companies is because they have dedicated machines to do each task, instead of having to change a setup on each machine for every o-ring groove, or every air passage..

Like I said if you really want to find out the cost of making a marker, go to a competent machinest and have him make one for you. Then you will see just how much it costs. Hell you said you like cockers, take a merlin extrusion (which does most of the hard work for you) and see how much it costs.

btw your jeans comment made me giggle..

Not applicable. The companies have programs so its wayyy cheaper than to have one body made. That and if they own their own machines, its even cheaper, since they aren't paying like you would for milling like you would a normal shop. And yes, Merlin extrusions are expensive, but I'm not a fan of them, I like freeflows and karnis.

[Mr Idiot Box]

Originally Posted by Spazdoc

Perhaps if the whole world only used ramping, but semi is still used quite widely.

True but YOU, ME or any PRO can not out shoot any high end marker out. So in this case ROF is useless.

[RavagersTC]

Originally Posted by Mr Idiot Box

True but YOU, ME or any PRO can not out shoot any high end marker out. So in this case ROF is useless.

QFT.


Physically impossible for humans to pull a trigger as fast as the electronics and mechanics can cycle the marker. So whenever they say "its faster" I just wanna smack the **** out of whoever the person in charge of marketing is. ****, my old spyder can probably cycle over 40 bps with the right electronics.

[FrmrSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

QFT.


Physically impossible for humans to pull a trigger as fast as the electronics and mechanics can cycle the marker. So whenever they say "its faster" I just wanna smack the **** out of whoever the person in charge of marketing is. ****, my old spyder can probably cycle over 40 bps with the right electronics.

I think you hell bent on justifying your position but you are obviously ignorant. A merlin extrusion is just a body blank (and extremely inexpensive). You would have to have do a fair amount of work to make it a usable body..So that seems to be something you don't know about cockers..

Next, Yes a company may have a machine or several, but guess what, those machines aren't free and cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.. Not including upkeep (which they need constantly), not including price of tooling, not including the cost of a qualified person to run those machines. This main point you don't seem to understand AT ALL.


And as far as the spyder comment, yeah they can probably cycle close to 40 bps, but the things you have to take into account, are reliability (which spyders don't have), kick (spyders have a plethora of). Really there is alot more to a marker than just speed, but does that make it a good marker, hell no.

I'm just going to leave this thread because you keep trying to justify a moot point, and insist on doing so rather ignorantly.

[Spazdoc]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

QFT.


Physically impossible for humans to pull a trigger as fast as the electronics and mechanics can cycle the marker. So whenever they say "its faster" I just wanna smack the **** out of whoever the person in charge of marketing is. ****, my old spyder can probably cycle over 40 bps with the right electronics.

Yeah, but for me I cannot seem to hit good ROF on the Luxe, DM's, or PM's. Whether it is the lack of feedback from the gun (kick) or the way those people would have their triggers set up, but with the NT, egos, and Eblades, I am able to register a higher ROF. I just do not like those squishy spoolies.

Would you want a gun that is limited to firing at your fingers' ROF, or do you want it to be able to easily handle what you will pull? The VL2000 has been show to reliably feed 12 bps, but you don't see people switching back to the old school hoppers for PSP. Just like the gun, if it can handle a higher ROF, it will not have problems running at the lower ROF.

[andisblue_]

I like the fact that I lost interest in it before I dropped a ridiculous amount of money on my recballin' self. (I almost did it)

I thought the shut-off valve in the bolt was really cool.

[RavagersTC]

Originally Posted by Spazdoc

Yeah, but for me I cannot seem to hit good ROF on the Luxe, DM's, or PM's. Whether it is the lack of feedback from the gun (kick) or the way those people would have their triggers set up, but with the NT, egos, and Eblades, I am able to register a higher ROF. I just do not like those squishy spoolies.

Would you want a gun that is limited to firing at your fingers' ROF, or do you want it to be able to easily handle what you will pull? The VL2000 has been show to reliably feed 12 bps, but you don't see people switching back to the old school hoppers for PSP. Just like the gun, if it can handle a higher ROF, it will not have problems running at the lower ROF.

I've never had "feedback" problems with any gun other than shockers. Not because it lacked kick in order to help bounce a little, but because the trigger geometry is plain AWFUL for anything other than ramp modes. I personally used a pulse for the longest time, over a year. Loved it, great hopper, not as fast as a rotor or torque or whatever it is guys shoot these days, but it worked, was bulletproof, and the battery life was awesome. I got all sorts of crazy looks using it. Not as many crazy looks though as the cocker sitting underneath it. And yet I found that my 15bps PSP ramp was just as fast as one of my team mates 15bps PSP ramp Ego8. And he paid 1400, I didn't.

People will buy into marketing, that's why people go to college and learn how to con people into paying for **** they don't need. If I could keep anyone I know from buying a new marker I would, it isn't worth the money. Probably why I shoot a DM7 instead of dropping cash for a DM10 or NT, it wouldn't hurt me financially, I just can't justify the cost. Even if slap nuts up there could between milling, anno, marketing, etc. I could care less how much it costs, but for how many markers they make, they get a good chunk of change out of it.


But I have no problem with people I dont know buying new markers, so that 2 years later I can get them at less than half what they cost new.

[tweeter4]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

I've never had "feedback" problems with any gun other than shockers. Not because it lacked kick in order to help bounce a little, but because the trigger geometry is plain AWFUL for anything other than ramp modes. I personally used a pulse for the longest time, over a year. Loved it, great hopper, not as fast as a rotor or torque or whatever it is guys shoot these days, but it worked, was bulletproof, and the battery life was awesome. I got all sorts of crazy looks using it. Not as many crazy looks though as the cocker sitting underneath it. And yet I found that my 15bps PSP ramp was just as fast as one of my team mates 15bps PSP ramp Ego8. And he paid 1400, I didn't.

People will buy into marketing, that's why people go to college and learn how to con people into paying for **** they don't need. If I could keep anyone I know from buying a new marker I would, it isn't worth the money. Probably why I shoot a DM7 instead of dropping cash for a DM10 or NT, it wouldn't hurt me financially, I just can't justify the cost. Even if slap nuts up there could between milling, anno, marketing, etc. I could care less how much it costs, but for how many markers they make, they get a good chunk of change out of it.


But I have no problem with people I dont know buying new markers, so that 2 years later I can get them at less than half what they cost new.

Can all this stupid arguing stop? Okay to the kid that keeps the complaining going about the RevengersTC, okay. My dad owns 2 CNC machines and they dont cost much to keep running and they arent hard to use. Secondly Ravengers this the the NT thread no try to get e-cool points thread. No one cares about your life story. Merlin Extrusion are cheap almost useless bodys without alot of milling. End of the day. To make one NT for Dye excluding the high price to buy a CNC machine. They are paying about 400 when it is all said and done permarker including labor and whatnot.



But to make legit. I love the NT shoots smooth and is efficient and comfy. Only reasons I need to get one.

[EclipseKid3186]

tool-less grips and the weight (it weighs less than a halo b according to my scale)

[YsO]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

Their profit margin is huge, don't gimme that ****. And why would I yell at the automotive industry? I'll never buy a new car unless I really REALLY want one. Otherwise I can just as easily buy a used car that works as good.

AS AN EXAMPLE


I almost bought a Viper for 34k last week as opposed to the 95k they cost new. Dodge probably ****s themselves everytime they see one sell for 60k less than one of their new ones cost. But the difference between an 08 and 06 viper(there was no 07 model) is about 90hp, 250lbs, and 50 ft lb torque, and a set of 2000 dollar tires. And the two cars cost the same amount new. But take the DM9 and the DM10, and the performance differences are negligible. These companies are going to kill themselves off. They keep releasing new markers and everyone is getting to the point where, they can get something just as good for half the price after the next model year comes out. MacDev is probably one of the smartest companies out there, they don't come out with a new gun every year, or if they do, its something different. There's no point to releasing a new marker every year if you haven't done anything drastic to warrant someone buying it new.



But someone gets paid alot of money to trick alot of people into thinking it is. The only new equipment I buy anymore is apparel, I hate the thought of putting on a pair of pants that someone elses sweaty grundle was rubbing against.


So yeah, they mark it up cause they can and people will pay, even though they shouldn't. And yes, I've shot it all too. I've owned everything except an Angel or a Mag, but I've used them. I've shot a cocker for the last almost 9 years cause it's cheap as hell and easy to fix and works as good as anything else. But I wanted something different so I bought the DM.


Don't get me wrong, Dye makes good guns, I love the DM's and PM's, but I don't see the logic in paying 1600 for a new one, when last years or the year befores model works as good for half the price.

Eh, they know they will sell. Period. I bought one lol.

[Spazdoc]

Originally Posted by RavagersTC

But I have no problem with people I dont know buying new markers, so that 2 years later I can get them at less than half what they cost new.

As long as you are willing to buy used, I will be there to buy it new and sell it later. I like new stuff.

I wanted to add another thing about my NT that I love - the balance/weight. It almost feels like my SL Egos. Slim profile, not a tall 'billboard' feeling I get with the DM9 and not too long like the Luxe. Oh yeah, it looks incredible.

[CDN_3gomaniac]

the comfort, the weight, and the ball-on-ball accuracy

[WldWzl]

Originally Posted by Spazdoc

As long as you are willing to buy used, I will be there to buy it new and sell it later. I like new stuff.

I wanted to add another thing about my NT that I love - the balance/weight. It almost feels like my SL Egos. Slim profile, not a tall 'billboard' feeling I get with the DM9 and not too long like the Luxe. Oh yeah, it looks incredible.

I have to agree about the size, for me I love the feel. I also shoot a Luxe but am starting to not dig the length after having played with my NT for a few weeks. I just like the way the marker fits me.

[Spazdoc]

Originally Posted by WldWzl

I have to agree about the size, for me I love the feel. I also shoot a Luxe but am starting to not dig the length after having played with my NT for a few weeks. I just like the way the marker fits me.

It is not just the length, but also that the feedneck is a bit forward of the trigger guard. With the NT, the feedneck is a little forward of the trigger. I haven't seen a side-by-side recently, but it seems like the grip frame is a just a little forward in comaprison to the Luxe.

[PeAcE_PT]

the marker design and weight it's incredible!

the performance is yet to be knonw

[proto_oli]

all of the arguing here is pointless.. I don't have an NT, I've got a DM9.. its not about companies trying to con people into buying new stuff.. Stop for a second and think "Do I really need this new marker?" don't try to be like the "cool" kids at the field that every 6 months or so have new jerseys, pants, everything, and buy atleast twice a year 2 highend markers ( which their parents pay for.. well most of 'em ).. I work a full time job, a well paying one..no debts, that doesnt mean I'm going to get every DM that comes out every year.

It's all about being a smart shopper, not going with the crowd and hype. Don't hate on companies and their advert. strategies, Billy Wing himself says on the Dye youtube channel that the only difference from a DM9 to a DM10 is some different milling, the Ironmen reach trigger comes stock with it, better LPR adjustments.

Dye knows a LOT of people will flock and get the new markers that they comeout with every year.. Some people can actually afford them, others have to save up in order to change from a DM9 to a DM10 or NT. It's business, if the people complaining about the price and whatnot, were the actual owners of Dye, who at the end of the day have to make ends meet, and maintain a substantial profit margin, you would understand.. But since I'm willing to bet most of you dont run a business or depend on it for your future, you wont understand.

[RavagersTC]

Correct, I depend on uncle Sam to pay me from their tax dollars

[Dave284]

suuuper fast gun. light and acurate also!

will be my next purchase

[Bobbjammin]

Dye NT Wow what can I say its light is comfortable consonant and accurate how can I chose just one thing