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Old 10-14-2009, 02:47 PM #1
Lohman446
 
 
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Why new equipment won't save the sport

Nor, will it hurt it. Not in the long run. A stunning success it might be slightly cheaper. A failure it will move some of your money into the Gardners pockets. Don't worry, getting duped by SP is a coming of age thing in paintball. In the end it will not change the game for better or worse, at least not enough to matter.

The problem in paintball today and the retention of new players has very little to do with the caliber of paintball we are using, or even for that matter the impact of the paintball. While less pain has its place noone playing paintball realistically expects it to be pain free. Besides, the difference is likely not enough to bring in any of those who think what happens currently hurts too much. Put concisely if you are a wimp you are a wimp, and a little less pain is still pain.

I played this game until a year or so ago. I know what its like. I know and understand what it takes to win. Even I no longer want to play with today's normal player that I will find at open play, I can assure you its not money. Can you imagine what its like for the new player?

Picture the new player today at most fields. Having never played he is thrown into "open play". On his team are a couple experienced players, as is true on the other team. If he's lucky that is. Its possible, and just as likely, that the other side will be a team "practicing".

He is probably wearing some old pants, and a sweatshirt. He has been given (if he's really lucky) an Ion and an electric hopper. His goggles fog up as he plays, though he has been told to leave them on no matter what. The players next to him are in full matching gear, shooting ramping markers with force fed hoppers and carrying a lot of paint - to him a lot is two extra tubes, he has no clue how those people carrying a case afford to play.

A minute into the game he can't see... but he can hear
"Watch the snake, newb, watch the snake"
His only thought is, whats the snake before he is hit by, if he's lucky, 6 or so paintballs. If he's lucky its from across the field. This of course is followed by the yelling
"Get him out ref, he's wiping, get him out, get him out, get him out"
Not totally sure how to react when hit it takes time, and he will hear this and see this several times over the day.

You can guess what he will hear, and overhear in the staging area. He will begin to understand what wiping is, but he won't understand it until he gets a good shot in on a player, is almost certain it broke, and then is shot up by that player a few seconds later.

It will cost a new player $30 to $50 to play. Do you really think that being $10 cheaper would have made him come back to play or do you think, just maybe, the game has underlying problems?
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:52 PM #2
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this isnt for the new players.. this is for the people that shoot 50-100 cases a year. If i can save half of what im spending now i dont really care about that new guy im shooting out off break every point. if he wants to play he will learn like we all did.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:59 PM #3
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I don't think we will be saving half.I bet once or if it gets rolling it will cost the same as the 68cal paint.Has anybody looked at how expensive 43 caliber paint is?I googled it and saw 800 rounds for 30.00 bucks.That is what I pay for 2000 rounds of 68.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:59 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnair View Post
this isnt for the new players.. this is for the people that shoot 50-100 cases a year. If i can save half of what im spending now i dont really care about that new guy im shooting out off break every point. if he wants to play he will learn like we all did.
Case in point.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:04 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnair View Post
this isnt for the new players.. this is for the people that shoot 50-100 cases a year. If i can save half of what im spending now i dont really care about that new guy im shooting out off break every point. if he wants to play he will learn like we all did.
Gee, there's nothing wrong with paintball today. . .
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:08 PM #6
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this isnt for the new players.. this is for the people that shoot 50-100 cases a year. If i can save half of what im spending now i dont really care about that new guy im shooting out off break every point. if he wants to play he will learn like we all did.

Youre "sport" is predicated on my game. What that means is simple. In order for companies to be available to sponsor you, run tournaments, give prizes etc without charging you directly for everything is to have a receational base to siphon the money from.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:25 PM #7
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this isnt for the new players.. this is for the people that shoot 50-100 cases a year. If i can save half of what im spending now i dont really care about that new guy im shooting out off break every point. if he wants to play he will learn like we all did.
this is why our sport is dying. when i joined people were helpful.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:25 PM #8
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Thanks for starting the thread I have been thinking about all day. And now we can see clearly who is onboard with doing something positive for this sport.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:41 PM #9
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Yeah but what would be positive for the sport? Run more limited paint games? Pump? Capped rates of fire? All of the above? None of the above?
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:43 PM #10
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Yeah but what would be positive for the sport? Run more limited paint games? Pump? Capped rates of fire? All of the above? None of the above?
include new players. make them feel welcome. basically excersize empathy. hope thats not too difficult. I got my butt mowed down when I started playing too. But the people were very nice.... that changed somewhere along the way
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:49 PM #11
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I think most fields and players should understand something: Open play day is not tournament practice day. Tone it down, play for fun. Let the new guys have a sporting chance. Use the refs discretion to assure it. Your "sponsorhip" depends on these people having fun and wanting to do this again. Play left handed if your right, practice snap shooting, take a different bunker than normal, play pump, don't wipe, maybe even call yourself out on bounces, play hopperball - whatever. All those things will improve your game while giving other players at least a sporting chance. I
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:56 PM #12
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Yeah but what about out side of rec play. Tounrament is dieing and while some don't see a need for it, there is a need for competive high performance play.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:11 PM #13
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Paintball is a young mans game. You are constantly running, sliding, diving. I run long distances, I stretch daily, and I'm in shape. If I play all out at a tournament I am sore. You have to have "fresh blood" coming into the sport in order to maintain, at least the speed based game we play today. The fresh blood has to enjoy the first time they play enough to come back, repeatedly and with the drive to play competetively.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:13 PM #14
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Yeah but what about out side of rec play. Tounrament is dieing and while some don't see a need for it, there is a need for competive high performance play.
Tourney players don't come from no where. All the new players are getting pushed away from paintball...there for they do not stay and become tourney players
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:23 PM #15
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There also has to be a reason for them to stay and improve, yeah playing every couple of weekends is fun but there needs to be more then just that, a draw to bring them deeper in. Woodsball has that handled, between scenario and the appeal woodsball will continue to grow no worries but what about the competitive side? It didn't take long for their to be competitive play in paintball in the first place, should we just leave what's there alone and restart competitive paintball else where?

Even then newbies won't be new forever, if they do stick around, what's next for them? They've had it easy while they were getting aclimated to paintball, do we just say "Ok, you know the ropes, ROF is 12 with 3 shot, try to keep up?" and move them from the rental teams to main stream or do we continue to bracket and create divisions? Is high rate fire with a case of paint behind us still the right future for paintball?
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:27 PM #16
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you guys arent treating this like a sport.. What other sport do you join and instantly have fun playing with the best players around? none. you play with people of your caliber until you learn the basics, then you move up and start playing with the better people. I'm all for helping the new guys, letting them use my marker, showing them the ropes but its not fair to play with them and scare them away. yeah i could take it easy on them but whats that gonna do for me? nothing. im paying $80 a case here to go easy on someone so they can have fun? no.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:35 PM #17
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exactly your are only thinking about yourself. if your such of hight caliber then dont play rec ball.

I have played for nearly 15 years and I know that I have more knowledge of the game and have more " skill" and experience then the new player. But nothing makes me happier then seeing an in-experienced player doing something that he/she didnt think they could do or wouldnt have thought of doing. It gives me pride to have a player do something that helped them learn. That is what it means for paintball to grow. You can actually see it happen if your not to busy thinking about shooting up the opposing players.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:14 PM #18
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i completely agree with you. Sorry i sound like a dick and shoot new players i was just trying to get a point across.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:18 PM #19
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While I agree fully about why the sport is hurting, I will disagree with the statement that 50Cal won't hurt the sport. I see people running out into a woodsball game now with 700-1000rnds, TM7 (or SP1) in hand and going full auto on everything until they have maybe 200rnds left, then they start playing more conservatively. The only difference with 50Cal is they will now go out with 1200-2000rnd and light up more people, which will only cause a larger gap with the newer players.

Otherwise, well said and something we all have to keep in mind.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:30 PM #20
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I already posted this but I think it needs repeating
If you want paintball to survive, it is on US the established players to make that happen. talk to people who tried it and walked away you will find out why we are drying up.
you as a player can change that.

Invite your friends and co workers to play

Talk to your local fields about doing charity games and inform the local media about it.

Slow down your game when playing against new players, so they don't walk off the field and never return after getting beaten on all day long.

don't treat newbies like the enemy, they are not stupid, they are inexperienced, teach them, help them grow. maybe you will make a new friend or a teamate,(or the next Ollie Lang)

the industry has a set of standards, maybe they should be following it, and us as players should be too
maybe we don't need 12,000,000 balls per second during walk on play

taken word for word from astm designation: F1777/02 standard practice for paintball field operation:

"4.12.2 paintball markers opperating in other than semi-automatic or pump discharge modes are not to be allowed on the playing field. Paintball markers that are capable of operating in other than semi-automatic or pump discharge modes shall be allowed on the playing field so long as such markers are set to discharge in semi-automatic or pump discharge modes prior to and while being used on the field of play, the possession of any tools while on the field of play, or the disassembly of the marker, that allow the discharge mode to be changed shall be prohibited. the changing, while on the field, of the discharge mode to anything other than semi-automatic or pump dischargre modes shall be prohibited . the intent of this provision is to ensure that markers in use on a playing field shall be set to operate in semi-automatic or pump modes and not to prohibit the use of a marker on a playing field that may otherwise be capable of operating in other than semi-automatic or pump discharge modes."

when I was coming up in paintball every one had pumps
overshooting was laughable because
#1 you really had to try to do it
and
#2 no one wanted to waste their expensive paint on a player that was already out.

The average kid who wants to start playing now has HUGE hurdles to overcome. electros ramping cheap paint and large wallets have made it tough to want to stay in the game.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:51 PM #21
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amen again, I actually still have a ziploc bag of old oil based nelson paint. Orange fill with a clear shell. Man that stuff was expensive. If you guys think a box of 2000 costing your $70 is expensive try making less money and buying boxes of 500 for the same price. Trust me the prices have REALLY come down in the last 2 decades.
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