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Old 10-15-2009, 02:06 PM #127
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impulse would be a better bet for pain, at least, since it's total force over a period of time, or a difference in momentum. if the impact time is the same (probably isn't, but this is armchair physics here), the smaller ball will hurt less because it has less momentum due to the smaller mass. like i said, though, armchair physics, i have no idea how long each ball takes to break on impact, and even that would vary based on what it was hitting.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:13 PM #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3L View Post
Is energy or momentum a better measurement of breaking/bouncing? And pain? Eh, screw it, theory only lasts to the first experiment.
i think the closest way to approximate it would be to measure the energy transfer to the target by using a pendulum to see how much of the kinetic energy is transfered to potential energy (plus the kinetic of the pendulum weight)
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:21 PM #129
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:42 PM #130
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check painthappy's sig... and the first post or two here... it is in both...
No it isn't. Read my post again.

painthappy: Thanks for the graphs, I can't get to the calculator here at work. That establishes what their goal weight must be, although your point about breaking is good - they probably would have to get it a bit heavier to up the impact energy.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:45 PM #131
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No it isn't. Read my post again.

painthappy: Thanks for the graphs, I can't get to the calculator here at work. That establishes what their goal weight must be, although your point about breaking is good - they probably would have to get it a bit heavier to up the impact energy.
post #14...
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:45 PM #132
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Paint size is running between .490 to .497 using digital calipers. Making a video as we speak.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:35 PM #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seelow View Post
Would it be some what of an unfair advantage if the .50 could travel at a higher velocity than a .68? Wouldn't it be coming at you at a higher rate being, harder to snap shoot against some one using it. As in you both shot same time on target his hits you as he ducks in. Seems unfair. They need to be shot at the same FPS to be used on the same field together and therefore, will be out ranged by the .68 and then giving the .68 the advantage.
lol that's what you worried about? I mean yeah, it's a valid concern for sure, but I can't stop thinking about the fact they'll have 50% higher velocity as they exit the muzzle, so imagine getting bunkered with those little things up close, with someone's paint that's been sitting in the trunk of their car in the heat... can someone possibly think this whole concept is intented to "save" paintball and bring it to the masses? to bring new players to the sport? this is like a bad joke, child please...
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:37 PM #134
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FPE Paint Drop Testing Chart



These are the numbers so folks can do drop tests themselves, using the 1.21 gram .50 caliber paintball weight. If the ball breaks at that height, you now have the FPE. Match the FPE up with the chart here:
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/50ballistics/ <-- Numbers inside that link



and you'll have the distance at what the paintball should theoretically break at when hitting something solid.


Edit: Shell thickness of the paint is .014 to .0145 according to my caliper reading
Edit again: Just measure the thickness of a .68 caliber ball, (no idea on the brand) and that is .014
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Last edited by painthappy : 10-15-2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Added shell thinkness number
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:00 AM #135
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Thanks painthappy really appreciated.

from the look of things the limitation on when comparing the two is that the .50 shell is still the same thickness as the .68 and according to the fpe chart the .68 allows a much higher possibility of a break at range...

Please note the above is to make sure that I understand the information correctly and has no scientific or practical source because I do not currently have access to the proposed .50 round. Also if the above is wrong please indicate where and how I need to rectify my line of thinking.

Thank you
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:27 PM #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hospitallar_Knight View Post
IF the ball mass was increased to 1.5g and the FPS was increased to 350f/s I believe we will see a satisfactory performance from the .50 cal close to that of the .68cal. Both variables are realistic and within reach.
Have fun getting bunkered at 350fps
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:19 PM #137
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Have fun getting bunkered at 350fps
search "mike from ****** gets hit by .50 cal paintballs" on youtube. The paint really doesn't seem to hurt nearly as much as .68 when running around velocities normally to .68. Even if for some reason someone cranked up the velocity to 350 it probably wouldn't dish out any more pain than the .68...
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:35 PM #138
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Originally Posted by VrelicV View Post
search "mike from ****** gets hit by .50 cal paintballs" on youtube. The paint really doesn't seem to hurt nearly as much as .68 when running around velocities normally to .68. Even if for some reason someone cranked up the velocity to 350 it probably wouldn't dish out any more pain than the .68...

Notice in that video at 1:05 and 2:34 how many breaks occured 3-4
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:52 PM #139
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Originally Posted by Panthrprey View Post
Notice in that video at 1:05 and 2:34 how many breaks occured 3-4
but remember not all of them hit him.. he says in the video that just about all of them broke.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:16 PM #140
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Quote:
search "mike from ****** gets hit by .50 cal paintballs" on youtube. The paint really doesn't seem to hurt nearly as much as .68 when running around velocities normally to .68. Even if for some reason someone cranked up the velocity to 350 it probably wouldn't dish out any more pain than the .68...
On his site even he said a good amount bounced. I don't remember off the top of my head but he made a post about it.

I really hope the shell formula and thickness that is out right now is just a test phase and not production stuff. From all the information coming out about it currently makes the stuff seem like it's not brittle enough for decent play.

Fact is, currently .50 cal isn't the revolution it's made out to be. It's just a marketing ploy. So what if the stuff is $25 for a case of 2000? If the stuff really is as hard to break as the current information coming out about it is, and the wieght is going to be 1.21g making it inferior to .68. Then I'd rather pay the $30 for a case of DXS training that I already do.

I would love .50 cal to work, but the formula needs improvements. Thankfully it's not in full production stage yet. So we really don't know what they are planning on doing with it. If it works out like they say it will, then great, if not well... We'll see what happens I guess.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:33 AM #141
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Mike also said that Jack Rice of Alien had a chrono and the gun was shooting 320fps when in the video they say 270fps
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:00 AM #142
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I have been out of the loop for a couple of years now. I am surprised to find there is a desire from any direction or group, players or manufacturers, to move to a 50 cal paintball. People don't seem to understand what these performance charts are telling them. Certainly lunching a smaller paintball at higher velocity would get back the performance loss due to lighter weight, but I don't see that anyone has addressed the danger of a 450 fps paintball.

A standard paintball launched higher than 350 fps is damaging to bare skin. The force of the impact injects some of the liquid paint into the skin usually causing scaring. 450 fps is in the realm of some lesser pistol bullet velocities. Before the paintball disintegrates it would do significant damage. I have seen results of 450 fps reballs punching through 2 layers of Levis wrapped around a styrofoam block.

50 cal paint balls will have to be a shorter range sport to maintain safety.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:31 AM #143
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I wonder how it flies at 450FPS. I wonder if the slight reduction in energy carried is overcome by the smaller area when it hits or if it hurts about the same. I wonder if anyone would let me shoot it at 450FPS. Will the ball still travel straight or will lack of mass and wind resistance throw it wildly off course?
If, as posited on other threads here, the .50 shell is thinner, won't it have breakage problems being shot at 450 fps?

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Old 10-17-2009, 09:11 AM #144
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bruce you don't seem to have taken into account that a 60% lighter ball will do a lot less damage at the same speed, so 400 fps wont be any worse than 300fps for a 68 is now.

A problem here is that GI Milsim have stated that the velocity will not increase beyond 300fps. So the only way for them to improve performance is to increase the weight of the ball to at least 1.5 grams. They say they are working on this now.
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:47 AM #145
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Why does it say on the bag they should not be shot over 300fps?
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:05 AM #146
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If, as posited on other threads here, the .50 shell is thinner, won't it have breakage problems being shot at 450 fps?

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I honestly don't know. People smarter than I am, who I beleive, tell me that a sphere increases strength as it gets smaller due to the structure. Because of this not only does it have to be thinner to account for less energy to break it also has to be thinner to account for the increased structural integrity of the sphere because of the smaller size. I am sure there is some point that it would come apart due to air resistance, but I do not have any idea what speed that would be at.
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:10 AM #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
I honestly don't know. People smarter than I am, who I beleive, tell me that a sphere increases strength as it gets smaller due to the structure. Because of this not only does it have to be thinner to account for less energy to break it also has to be thinner to account for the increased structural integrity of the sphere because of the smaller size. I am sure there is some point that it would come apart due to air resistance, but I do not have any idea what speed that would be at.
a smaller sphere would require a thinner wall to support the same force, although there are many other variables in the shell that would need to be tweaked to do this correctly. as far as coming apart in flight, i dont think we would approach the speeds needed to break up in the air.
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