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Old 10-14-2009, 08:44 AM #64
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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
Our current nano fabrication technology in use for other industries is easily adaptable to producing magic pixie dust on a scale that would sufficiently supply the industry. Using the proprietary process also allows less pixies to be harmed, and is substantially better than previous attempts at producing pixie dust on any level.

This post made more sense than anthing this person has stated.

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Old 10-14-2009, 09:11 AM #65
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Nice work Carter. I'm hoping to shoot the stuff soon and have some dual chrono and accuracy data to throw into the mix.

UVHalo did warn me that the program that you're using to crunch those numbers was a bit off. Something about speeds and the calculations - as in that program is really accurate at 1200 fps, but 300 might be on the slow side for the calcs to run right. That's not to say that your're wrong comparatively - all of the calcs should be off the same amount - just that the real number values might be a bit off.

If you have the time - get a dual chrono reading - say one at muzzle, one at 50' and it possible one at 100'. When UVHalo had those numbers his math becomes scary accurate. He predicted the max distance of the first strike to be 519 feet - when Mike over at that other site did the test he ended up with 517 feet.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:17 AM #66
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A little late on the scene....but it is GREAT to actually see someone post some "verifiable" data rather than HYPE.

Thanks Carter.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:18 AM #67
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Here is an idea....why wait until our product is fully developed before we start making money on it. Yes if we build it they will come...even if we just say we are going to build it they will come.Yeah that's it, and if they say they dont like it we will just say it is not finished yet.....brilliant....
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:21 AM #68
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If I had the license for NX6 to run the physics engine I'd help but I don't have one (which sucks), that and I think my computer would crash running a simulation. Hopefully your test numbers will be the best indicater though bryce, I've honestly lost hope at this point and have put it in the marketing bull file for the time being.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:29 AM #69
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I'll add something I don't think has been mentioned in this thread already. People inside the paintball manufacturers that are making this paint are saying that the fill for these .50 balls is lower density than normal tournament paint because it has to be in order to get a decent splat on impact. So, this is a basic "you can't have your cake and eat it too" situation. There is no way this paint can meet all of the marketing claims. There will be significant drawbacks nomatter what they come up with.

I think it is also important to note that this test data Painthappy posted is based on current GI Milsim brand paint. So, that is what the stuff is. We have all seen the marketing claims, so we know what they hope to do. But with the actual paint in hand, we also know what they actually can do.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:06 AM #70
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According to the unbiased, unaffiliated supporters its not the final make yet, which is odd, releasing a decent amount of marketing, attending a tradeshow with test markers and paint and still not having a final product ready to launch at what many thought was a product launch.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:27 AM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman1416 View Post
According to the unbiased, unaffiliated supporters its not the final make yet, which is odd, releasing a decent amount of marketing, attending a tradeshow with test markers and paint and still not having a final product ready to launch at what many thought was a product launch.
to the point of even giving prices as well
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:36 AM #72
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Man, I love Tom Kaye. I love the guy!! Backing up his opinions with facts, science and experience. We need him back in paintball.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:38 AM #73
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According to the unbiased, unaffiliated supporters its not the final make yet, which is odd, releasing a decent amount of marketing, attending a tradeshow with test markers and paint and still not having a final product ready to launch at what many thought was a product launch.
Not only do they not have it on hand, they don't even have any specs. Like the weight of the ball with this final "formula". Surely they did some testing with the final product right? I ask that sarcastically. If the results are good or bad its becoming more and more obvious they are hyping hope over anything supported by testing or research.

To be totally honest: I hope they come out with a formula that works. I hope they make it. I hope TK in all his earlier testing has patents. I hope he sues them and wins.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:58 AM #74
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In addition to this I'd just like to point out that IF you assume that this paint will be shot at 450fps in order to "keep up" with the .68 cal stuff, it will shed more vortices in flight. And since it's not as heavy as .68 (doesn't matter if it's 1.1g or 1.3g or eve 2g it won't be 3g) those vortices will affect the flight of the ball to a much greater degree since it has less inertia. So shooting lighter paint at faster velocity is going to make it fly more squirrely the farther out it goes.

Which is more or less consistent with what most of the old timers experienced with .50 cal the last time around. Even if you did longball with it, it was hopelessly inaccurate at range.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:16 PM #75
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IF the ball mass was increased to 1.5g and the FPS was increased to 350f/s I believe we will see a satisfactory performance from the .50 cal close to that of the .68cal. Both variables are realistic and within reach.
But when we increase that velocity will the balls still fly straight or all over the place like a .68 does when u turn it up that high.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:22 PM #76
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thank you painthappy for your efforts.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:24 PM #77
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Let them have their little paint hopefully it will ruin some of these company's and the smaller better company's with better ethics will take over.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:49 PM #78
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Originally Posted by painthappy View Post

After weighing .50 caliber paint from Cup, the average weight was 1.21 grams.
Where/from whom did you obtain this information?
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"there are variables outside of physics that will affect the flight of the ball"
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:30 PM #79
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Originally Posted by Hospitallar_Knight View Post
IF the ball mass was increased to 1.5g and the FPS was increased to 350f/s I believe we will see a satisfactory performance from the .50 cal close to that of the .68cal. Both variables are realistic and within reach.
And what would that feel like getting hit at close range? Anyone have an idea?
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:01 PM #80
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Where/from whom did you obtain this information?
100 rounds of sealed production paint was weighed and the average was 1.21 grams.

I posed this on my site, and someone suggested I re-post it here:

Quote:
For the record... I have never ONCE said that there isn't an application for this product. Small compact guns, realistic look, magazine fed, and for new players? Probably a fantastic product.

Market it better darn it. Market it by telling the truth! A smaller ball will be less likely to break, and you can shoot through that thick brush! A guy told me that back in the 80's about his Crosman 3357 .50 caliber pistol. I was sold back then on it, just due to that fact.

I've just been on the rampage over the fact that everyone started off saying it would replace our guns, or make them obsolete... And those are literal quotes.

People come out with new technology all the time... .43 caliber has its place, the new first strike rounds, apex barrels, etc, etc. They all have their place, and people will use them or not, and most of us don't care. And we don't care because none of those products came to the market with the notion they were going to forcefully change our sport as we know it.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:10 PM #81
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Quote:
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Where/from whom did you obtain this information?
It sounds like painthappy received his weights from another source, but it matches what Jack Woods posted in that other forum. It's post #42 in the PunkWorks sub forum, the thread is titled "more .50 math and graphs!"

I can't link you to it but that should give you enough information to find the post yourself. And I don't think anyone is going to question his motives as PE has already developed a prototype conversion kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Woods
Hi,

Sorry I haven't been around for a while. Just been super-busy.

I have just weighed 2 differerent 0.50 brands of balls, each brand having 2 different batches (so 4 different balls altogether), and they all weigh in at exactly 1.2g

I have some of the "Tournament Grade" GI paint that I picked up at Cup in the truck on the way to RI to forward to me in the UK, and I will weigh that also. That would be Monday next week, I hope.

Jack

PS was Gordon at Cup??
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:19 PM #82
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As a science major, I thank you carter. Hard data is what I want to see so I can judge for myself, not some sales pitch.

The last place I expected to see actual useful data posted would be this hype machine of a website.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:30 PM #83
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To make .50 work, the obvious solution is to make the field smaller.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:28 PM #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
do you know why .68 was used?



well see what they do with the final crap
Your right it will be crap, even if its final. .68 FTW. Great post Carter!
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