Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2009, 03:24 PM #1
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Specific question: What is the weight of a 50 ball

The behaviour of any projectile can be predicted through a series of measurements and formulas based on physics, ballistic coefficent, etc.. Now granted this is not going to take in such factors as undercut bolts or barrel induced backspin, but still it at least gives us a point to start.

So the question is simple. What is the weight of a 50 paintball? Any argument is speculation without it, both for and against. Its not a hard number to figure out, surely those in the know have the equipment to simply weigh one of them. The formulas we would assume have them far too light to be as effective as a 68. We are told to disregard because it is using a denser fill. Fine, what does the denser fill make it work out to in weight?
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-08-2009, 03:30 PM #2
bigman1416
Make'n you look good!
 
bigman1416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 has been a member for 10 years
bigman1416 is a Paintball photographer
bigman1416 is playing at Living Legends III
The closest you'll get to an answer today is 1.3 grams. It's the closest thing we have to a starting point and you can get the number by scale reduction of a .68 ball and the known weight of most liquids and fills for that matter. Past that there's nothing accurate or definative.
__________________
Reflex Photography
Giving more tools to the field owners and players.
Available for events!
Officially Against the .50 "Revolution"
Don't believe the hype, not new, not the fix.
bigman1416 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 03:34 PM #3
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
At 1.3 the numbers suck.... but there are weights that would start to give 50 an advantage without hitting any harder. Thats why I wonder why the weights are not readily available.
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 03:44 PM #4
bigman1416
Make'n you look good!
 
bigman1416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 has been a member for 10 years
bigman1416 is a Paintball photographer
bigman1416 is playing at Living Legends III
The formula may not be patented yet so they maybe uneasy about releasing or it could be an existing fill. This .50 stuff relies souly on that little ball and it's what we know the least about, well the new ball that is. As it stands if there isn't a major change to the ball both fill and shell (we think the shell is better) it'll be the same results as before.
__________________
Reflex Photography
Giving more tools to the field owners and players.
Available for events!
Officially Against the .50 "Revolution"
Don't believe the hype, not new, not the fix.
bigman1416 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 03:46 PM #5
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Releasing the weight would not give anyone an advantage on the formula though... it would not give any specifics of how.
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 03:50 PM #6
bigman1416
Make'n you look good!
 
bigman1416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 has been a member for 10 years
bigman1416 is a Paintball photographer
bigman1416 is playing at Living Legends III
Just theorising
__________________
Reflex Photography
Giving more tools to the field owners and players.
Available for events!
Officially Against the .50 "Revolution"
Don't believe the hype, not new, not the fix.
bigman1416 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 03:52 PM #7
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Its a valid theory. My theory, since we are being open about it, is they are depending on hype to sell it, and the sooner specifics are realized the sooner it can by shown, through physics, that there is no advantage (and may be a disadvantage).

I mean, if we can get people buying the markers (or conversion kits) before the paint is available, we can dodge that little road bump in the selling point of the markers.
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 08:38 AM #8
brycelarson
 
 
brycelarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
we'll have it soon. by hook or by crook.
__________________
-Bryce Larson
b_teeth@yahoo.com
brycelarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 09:43 AM #9
Spock
Live Long and Bluster
 
Spock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SE PA
Spock is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
GI's tent has been up for three days now, and I've seen pictures of people with the new paint in hand.

I'm shocked that we don't have this info yet.
__________________
"Once I make someone die, and they see me....they can't change their mind." -- God

Originally posted by matt00iconoclast:
"there are variables outside of physics that will affect the flight of the ball"
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 10:18 AM #10
visor
Samurai
 
visor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lee's Summit, Mo
visor supports Cereal Killerz 2
visor is playing at Living Legends III
visor is playing at Living Legends VII
visor supports Empire
Some one needs to take a scale to there booth and weigh a ball.
__________________
St. Louis Samurai

Company's that I support: Ninja Paintball, Techt, Lurker, Pinokio
visor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 10:39 AM #11
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Or weigh five, Look at the chart and the differences between 1.1 grams and 1.5. Think how much each little variance is going to change trajectory. How good is the manufacturing? How close are the tolerances?
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 10:49 AM #12
blackmagic71
 
 
blackmagic71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SE Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Its a valid theory. My theory, since we are being open about it, is they are depending on hype to sell it, and the sooner specifics are realized the sooner it can by shown, through physics, that there is no advantage (and may be a disadvantage).

I mean, if we can get people buying the markers (or conversion kits) before the paint is available, we can dodge that little road bump in the selling point of the markers.
Very good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brycelarson View Post
we'll have it soon. by hook or by crook.
I'm looking forward to what you guys come up with. Keep us updated.
blackmagic71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:29 PM #13
skinnyfatguy
AKA-holic
 
skinnyfatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Golden, CO
skinnyfatguy is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
I find it very suspicious that this questions still hasn't been answered, especially since there have been several people at the cup stating they were going to do this. Why would GI Milsim denying people this information unless they had something to hide (ie. their fill isn't significantly more dense and it's all hype).
__________________
WTB Air America Prophecy HPR (Titanium Unireg)

skinnyfatguy's Collection | My WTB List
MCB Feedback | Old PBN Feedback | CC Feedback | eBay Feedback
skinnyfatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:35 PM #14
heisman01
 
 
heisman01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cincinnati
heisman01 plays in the PSP
heisman01 donated to help Peyton Trent
heisman01 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyfatguy View Post
would GI Milsim denying people this information unless they had something to hide (ie. their fill isn't significantly more dense and it's all hype).
because thats the truth and you cant profit off truthful statements
__________________
7.3's
Vettes
Jeeps

Classic eclipse mag shooter
heisman01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:48 PM #15
insixdays777
Fight For Fun.
 
insixdays777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Iowa
 has been a member for 10 years
insixdays777 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Do we know the velocity GI Milsim wants to allow the .50cal to be shot at??

I heard they are trying to push for an increase in FPS over 300.

What are they wanting to shoot these at? 325? 350? 375?
__________________
Alien Deception
Luxe OLED
Dye DM15
Empire Dfender
insixdays777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:56 PM #16
heisman01
 
 
heisman01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cincinnati
heisman01 plays in the PSP
heisman01 donated to help Peyton Trent
heisman01 plays in the APPA D3 division
then we would all have to buy new masks as well seeing as most lens wont take that many 300 fps+ shots
__________________
7.3's
Vettes
Jeeps

Classic eclipse mag shooter
heisman01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 09:00 PM #17
Spock
Live Long and Bluster
 
Spock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SE PA
Spock is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heisman01 View Post
then we would all have to buy new masks as well seeing as most lens wont take that many 300 fps+ shots
300 fps is based on the weight of a 68 caliber ball. 50 caliber balls weigh about half as much.

There's a video of a guy (we'll call him "Mike") shooting himself point blank in the arm with one of these guns that was reportedly clocked in at 310, and it only left a minor welt.
__________________
"Once I make someone die, and they see me....they can't change their mind." -- God

Originally posted by matt00iconoclast:
"there are variables outside of physics that will affect the flight of the ball"
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 09:04 PM #18
orionz06
Turtle Wrangler
 
orionz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Annual Supporting Member
orionz06 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
orionz06 is an NCPA player
orionz06 is Immortal
orionz06 supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by heisman01 View Post
then we would all have to buy new masks as well seeing as most lens wont take that many 300 fps+ shots
No, ASTM will need to determine how to allow this. It might be as simple as using some form of a ballistics pendulum or something, who knows...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
300 fps is based on the weight of a 68 caliber ball. 50 caliber balls weigh about half as much.

There's a video of a guy (we'll call him "Mike") shooting himself point blank in the arm with one of these guns that was reportedly clocked in at 310, and it only left a minor welt.
I too saw a review of sorts, and a guy said that he was relieved when he shot it, as he had many concerns that others have.
__________________
Penn State Paintball, Alumni #38
☆☆☆ The Departed© #38 ☆☆☆
Erie Fusion (original) #38

"Should you covet what you cannot afford. Maketh more money."
orionz06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 08:03 AM #19
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
ASTM will be ignored, again. As long as we are ignoring the standards we set years back in accounts to ramping, why would we really worry about it with anything else. Besides, very few players know ASTM standards and none of the companies seem overly willing to post any portion of the standards to prove they are in compliance. That being said - a smaller ball with less weight should be able to travel at a higher velocity and carry less energy. I don't know the formulas to account for the lower impact area vs the energy carried but I would not expect the mask lens to be a problem. If anything some people have eluded to a 50 being able to sneak through the holes in a mask but I cannot think of any off hand where this would be a real issue.
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 10:19 AM #20
tremis
Old Guard
 
tremis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Easter Island
 has been a member for 10 years
tremis owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
tremis posts videos on PbNation
The companies dont need to post the standards, they are available for purchase. Get a copy and you can see if they meet the standard.
http://www.astm.org/Standards/F1776.htm
__________________
It is not advisable to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener.
tremis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 01:15 PM #21
Lohman446
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
We don't meet standards as it is - look at the trigger standards for instance. I once had a copy, then ramping came along and I threw them away as meaningless... because apparently thats what the industry decided.
Lohman446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump