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Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 PM #22
WillyW0nka
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Originally Posted by TheBoss33 View Post
Smart field owners will not change over till the time is right and they know this is the only future for paintball. If you jump in both feet 1st without testing the water, you are a fool.
They're still going to lose money on it. If they "wait until the time is right", they'll buy .50 cal equipment and be stuck with thousands of dollars worth of useless rental equipment. Now they'll have to foot the bill for new rental equipment without being able to sell off the old stuff to pay for it.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:15 PM #23
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and what if there is a conversion kit for the ion / .98 custom? switching over to .50 cal will initially cost them money but save them money in the long run. after all paintball fields are in it for the long run.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:18 PM #24
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Originally Posted by jerseypb29 View Post
and what if there is a conversion kit for the ion / .98 custom? switching over to .50 cal will initially cost them money but save them money in the long run. after all paintball fields are in it for the long run.
But field owners don't just use Ions and 98 customs (those really are a ***** to own as rental markers, they take a while to open/clean/fix). The local field near me uses Piranhas and Spyder Xtra's. Think there's a snowball's chance in hell they'll be getting conversion kits for those?
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:21 PM #25
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Originally Posted by WillyW0nka View Post
But field owners don't just use Ions and 98 customs (those really are a ***** to own as rental markers, they take a while to open/clean/fix). The local field near me uses Piranhas and Spyder Xtra's. Think there's a snowball's chance in hell they'll be getting conversion kits for those?
That's funny, practically every field I have ever been to uses Tippmans and Ions (if they rent electros), and I've never been to a field that rents Spyders or Pirahnas.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:22 PM #26
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this whole movement seems to be a way to save money in the long run. if it is all its cracked up to be then field owners and players will see benefits. i don't really see a problem with that. before everyone goes and boycotts it why don't you wait a month or so until all the facts are on the table. then u can actually make a rational decision(i kno for alot of you 14 year olds that's going to be really hard).
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:24 PM #27
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Originally Posted by WillyW0nka View Post
.50 Cal will not save me enough money to justify the cost of purchasing a new marker, hopper and barrel kit. I shoot two cases of paint a month, 3 if I play a tournament that month. Saving an average of $10 per case, playing 4 tournaments a year, I'd save about $280 per year.

How much will it cost for a new Ego w/ .50 cal kit, how about a .50 cal impulse? Rotor w/ .50 cal upgrade? If I bought one of those, it'd be about 5 years before I break even. After that, I'd be saving an additional $280 per year. So if I go out and buy an Ego10 and Rotor right now, in 6 years I'll have saved $280. Will that $280 cover the cost of all of my equipment that is now completely worthless? No, not even close. It'd be several more years before that happened, so now what, I'm looking at 8+ years before I finally break even.

How about if I decide to stick with my .68 equipment? Obviously, if .50 cal takes off, the price of .68 will rise. Since fewer people would be using .68 cal paint, the deliveries will be smaller. If it costs $100 for a shipment of paint, and they're shipping 50 cases, it will add $2 to the cost of each case of paint to account for shipping. But, now people are using .50 cal, so their order for .68 cal paint is only going to be for 25 cases now. Distribute the $100 amongst each case of paint, and the cost to ship each case just went from $2 to $4 per case. How about the cost to produce .68 cal paint? They're going to be making less of it now that part of their attention is on .50 cal. It costs money to run the machines that churn the paint out. If they're making less of it, they need to charge more for it to be able to pay the cost of running the machines. If I want to keep playing .68 cal, I'll be paying for it at a higher wholesale price and I'll be paying more for shipping.

What if .50 cal DOES flop? Well now you've got a handful of paint manufacturers that just spent a lot of time and money on paint that people don't want. They're going to lose money on the whole damn thing. How are they going to account for the money they lost? Raise their prices on their .68 cal paint. Once again, I'm stuck paying more money.

If the industry decides to make my .68 cal equipment obsolete, then I'll just give them back all of their .68 cal paint.....at 320 feet per second.
One of the best posts I've ever read on Pbnation.

You've basically summed up most of my concerns about this issue. No matter what happens, the price of .68 cal paint is going to go UP. I have invested a small fortune in .68 cal gear, and not just guns. I am perfectly happy with the performance of my gear - but it may become obsolete in the future if .68 cal paint costs $90/case or more.

I guess time will tell which caliber wins. Personally, I will be investing in .68 cal paint until I see a real advantage to switching...
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:26 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyW0nka View Post
They're still going to lose money on it. If they "wait until the time is right", they'll buy .50 cal equipment and be stuck with thousands of dollars worth of useless rental equipment. Now they'll have to foot the bill for new rental equipment without being able to sell off the old stuff to pay for it.
The change over even if it is a "smash hit". Will take a few years. Owners will have turned over their rentals plenty of times to pay for them selves before then.

Oh, and by the way I use Piranhas for rentals.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:30 PM #29
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That's funny, practically every field I have ever been to uses Tippmans and Ions (if they rent electros), and I've never been to a field that rents Spyders or Pirahnas.
Cool story Hansel. What's your point? You have a different personal experience?

The fact remains that not every field uses Tippmanns and Ions. Ions will probably see a .50 cal conversion kit, but Tippmanns have a much different body design that would change the entire shape of the gun, which may make it more of a "new gun" than a conversion kit.

So for the fields that run Tippmann's and Ions, they still have to buy conversion kits for their entire rental fleet, plus some sort of hopper insert. Once again, that's more money coming out of the pocket of small fields that they probably don't have right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss33 View Post
The change over even if it is a "smash hit". Will take a few years. Owners will have turned over their rentals plenty of times to pay for them selves before then.

Oh, and by the way I use Piranhas for rentals.
I could only hope so. Me quitting paintball would be pretty weak, but fields closing would be terrible. If I no longer have fun playing shootyball on the weekends, I'll live. If my local field owner can't make ends meet to put corn flakes on the table for his kids, I'm kicking someone in the shin.

And Piranhas are ftw They're SO fast to field strip, clean and reassemble. They blow Tippmann's out of the water IMO.

Last edited by WillyW0nka : 10-08-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:30 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyW0nka View Post
But field owners don't just use Ions and 98 customs (those really are a ***** to own as rental markers, they take a while to open/clean/fix). The local field near me uses Piranhas and Spyder Xtra's. Think there's a snowball's chance in hell they'll be getting conversion kits for those?
then theres no way they are going to have thousands of dollars in useless rental guns because those guns can sell for probably about $25 dollars each. a store would have to own 40 piranhas and xtras for them to have a thousand dollars in rental guns? you dont think if this ball gets rolling on .50 cal that companies will release cheap rental markers similar to the spyder and piranaha? fields will eventually buy into them and it will save them money on paint in the long run.

edit: yea your right you will probably see some small fields that cant afford to change over and will eventually loose business to .50 cal fields and be forced to close but more fields will eventually open up. Its not like those small fields that cant afford to switch over are giving the paint and gun companies a ton of business either.

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Old 10-08-2009, 10:38 PM #31
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Originally Posted by jerseypb29 View Post
then theres no way they are going to have thousands of dollars in useless rental guns because those guns can sell for probably about $25 dollars each. a store would have to own 40 piranhas and xtras for them to have a thousand dollars in rental guns? you dont think if this ball gets rolling on .50 cal that companies will release cheap rental markers similar to the spyder and piranaha? fields will eventually buy into them and it will save them money on paint in the long run.

edit: yea your right you will probably see some small fields that cant afford to change over and will eventually loose business to .50 cal fields and be forced to close but more fields will eventually open up. Its not like those small fields that cant afford to switch over are giving the paint and gun companies a ton of business either.
That my friend, is the definition of "****ting on the little guy". Glad you finally got there.

What's so hard to believe about a field having 40 rentals? An average sized field has it's big saturdays every now and then. Better to have 40 rentals and have a couple more than you needed for the day then to have 25 and have to tell people to leave.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:25 AM #32
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Only the strong survive in rough economic times no ones going to sacrifice there business to help save smaller business. The paint manufactures and gun companies are not going to care if a few small fields that dont buy that much product get closed down. why should they? survival of the fittest my friend, this isnt the automobile industry no one is geting handouts.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:31 PM #33
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Originally Posted by jerseypb29 View Post
Only the strong survive in rough economic times no ones going to sacrifice there business to help save smaller business. The paint manufactures and gun companies are not going to care if a few small fields that dont buy that much product get closed down. why should they? survival of the fittest my friend, this isnt the automobile industry no one is geting handouts.
Getting rid of the smaller fields will result in a loss in potential revenue, which helps nobody.
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:06 PM #34
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It's actually 60% smaller
Where did 60% come from?

its a ~26% difference in size.

@$45 for standard fare paint, reduce the price by about 1/4 at the manufacturing level wont really guarantee a reduction in price at the consumer level.

25% of $45 is $11.25

Average paintball player is going to save ~$25 a month at best? (two cases a month).

Does this quantify buying thousands in new equipment?

I think not.

This is a great way to destroy the already fledgling industry, so that the fat cats can get fatter.

They know that if they force adoption of a new standard they will create a turn over of product, almost guaranteeing them a fat wallet.

What if instead of developing a new standard of paint size, they put more effort into R&D of new products. Oh wait, that'd be counter intuitive to our industry. They ENJOY selling you the same product over and over again yearly, it keeps their costs down and their profits up.

This is why I have decided months ago to take time off from the sport, because right now it is not worth my time or money.

Ive only been playing for 12 years, and at least once a week for 6. Now its time for my wallet to grow.
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:09 PM #35
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Where did 60% come from?

its a ~26% difference in size.
I'm not a math teacher. Figure it out yourself or read one of the 50,000 times it's been explained in all of these threads.

HINT: I'm talking about the volume/weight (which is all that that matters in terms of cost)
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