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Old 10-14-2009, 07:46 AM #64
reshepman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrymuffin View Post
.50 will not just save the game but it will save players. In the 7 years I've played I cant tell you how much good talent has gone to waste because of the cost of paintball and I'm talking about players who couldn't afford it even with sponsorships.

Paintball needs this. Paintball players need this. This should have come out a long time ago.

Thats a flat out joke of a statement. Paintballs currently are so freaking cheap its crazy. Riddle me this batman, how much do you think paint used to cost in the early 90's? The late 80's. Its been declining for a while. If you cant afford $30 for a case of paint, but can afford a $1500 paintball marker that just dosnt make sense to me. Learn to control your money better. When I couldnt affored to buy paint for a period of time I gathered as many players as I could and bought the paint in bulk so I could get a discount. Hell I currently get my paint for a little over wholesale just because I filter as many players as I can find to the proshop. In return for bringing the customers to the store the owner gives me deals on paint, free air fills, and discounts on new gear. I'm tired of hearing excuses, do something about it.

If you love paintball you will find a way to play paintball. I have seen players work 2 jobs just so they could play paintball on the weekends. If you have the talent and the drive you can play paintball basically whenever you want.

.50 isnt a replacement for .68, its just another paintball product giving new players an avenue the sport. Its crazy to think that an entire infastructure .68 is going to be replaced.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:25 AM #65
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My game doesn't need to be saved. .50 cal is just another way for PB companies to squeeze more money out of people to buy upgrades for their equipment.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:57 AM #66
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I really have to question the validity of the cost saving claims and how much they are goig to help increase attendance.

I run a rec field (no tournament type fields). This is the type of field that we all know gets the majority of paintball business. My average individual customer probably spends less than $200/year on paintball (the vast majority probably spend less than $100, but the "regulars" bring the average up). Of that $200, probably about $150 is spent on paint (the rest on field fees and rentals). Even if there ends up being a 30% cost savings in paint (which I doubt will happen) that would be a $45 savings over the course of the year (spread over 3 visits, so about $15 each time). That's the best possible scenario for the player. Would this be enough to attract these people (or their friends) more often? Maybe.

But...one of the advantages GIMilsim is touting to field owners is how the new paint will allow for better margins. What does that mean? That 30% savings (assuming it is that high) is not going to be passed on to the end user. Some of it may be, but not all of it (at my field none of it would be - sorry).

Just a warning for people not to get too swept up in all the marketing claims this new company is making. They want everyone to get excited about a new product before they actually have it for sale. That's what marketers do. That way, once they start production, they will sell it to all the hyped up consumers instead of having it rot in the warehouse.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:19 AM #67
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not everyone in this sport hast he moeny to trade up. the only reason why im playing paintball again is because my school is sponsoring our tournament and paint fees. i cannot afford to switch all my gear to .50 nor do i want to just to follow a gimmick, the install kits arent going to be cheap it just wouldnt make sense for them to be. honestly what a company want more you to buy a 300 dollar kit for your ego. or buy the new "ego11". think about that one there going to be very similar in price to say the least, this new switch will hurt more then help in the short run but probably boost walk on rental movement in the long run. i know for a fact if the switch becomes even a semblence of mandatory i will quit i dont have 1000 to blow on a conversion kit. and another possibility for those conversion kits which is really going to mess up everyone whos ever traded on pbn, is the possibilty that the companys will show compassion on there loyal customers and anyone who submitted a warrenty card will receive a conversion kit if you write in for it and show proof of ownership plus im sure a nominal fee. its just buisness this isnt going to help us this is meant to make more money. its one of those ideas if it aint broke dont fix it. i get the electro gun reference but that split the division where alot of mechanicals stay true to the roots in the woods while us electros stay in the new breed of sup air bunkers( i understand there are some exceptions). so i wonder if maybe the same will happen again, another rift into the sport where another field would be needed, because if the difference between the two is as drastic as they say, you would need new dimensions for fields that were big to be smaller new layouts etc. woodsball players would sacrifice range and potential for long shots. theres alot of things to consider, i understand the concept and the buisness approach but the sport as a whole is not ready for this change do i think its a smaller and economical idea yes. the time isnt right for every person who has the money theres 12 of us who dont, i dont upgrade every year this is the first time ive ever owned an ego and i bought it used and 3 versions prior,im sure people will agree cash is short especially in these times and alot of us wont be able to update our gear and either become obsolete as players being the future scarcity of .68 gear/paint etc or slowly we will dwindle in numbers. granted there will probably be 100 new people for every "OG" who quits, so in essence a part of the sport will die, a new generation of players will emerge and what we were used to will no longer exist. i could go on and on about this but in summary
i dont believe .50 is right now it should be eventually when we stablize and when they figure cheap alternatives/ figure out how were goign to take on the two different types.

on a sidenote
think smaller paint will equal smaller bunkers
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:20 AM #68
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People say 50 cal will save the game.......exactly how? Save the talk about marginal costs and per/case sales because if you can't attract players then you aren't bringing in any money.
I hear the talk about players saving money. Well what about all the players with mid and low end markers from companies that WON'T be offering conversion kits? I'm sure someone will say "50 is just an option. You will still have 68 to shoot too". Well then tell me how are field owners suppose to prepare their stock? How many pallets of 68 should they order as opposed to 50? Order too many of one and not the other and some players are gonna suffer and be turned away. Order a ton of both and they will be spending more money then they are already for paint that might not even be used before it goes bad.
So someone please explain how 50 will save anything?
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:32 PM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I really have to question the validity of the cost saving claims and how much they are goig to help increase attendance.

I run a rec field (no tournament type fields). This is the type of field that we all know gets the majority of paintball business. My average individual customer probably spends less than $200/year on paintball (the vast majority probably spend less than $100, but the "regulars" bring the average up). Of that $200, probably about $150 is spent on paint (the rest on field fees and rentals). Even if there ends up being a 30% cost savings in paint (which I doubt will happen) that would be a $45 savings over the course of the year (spread over 3 visits, so about $15 each time). That's the best possible scenario for the player. Would this be enough to attract these people (or their friends) more often? Maybe.

But...one of the advantages GIMilsim is touting to field owners is how the new paint will allow for better margins. What does that mean? That 30% savings (assuming it is that high) is not going to be passed on to the end user. Some of it may be, but not all of it (at my field none of it would be - sorry).

Just a warning for people not to get too swept up in all the marketing claims this new company is making. They want everyone to get excited about a new product before they actually have it for sale. That's what marketers do. That way, once they start production, they will sell it to all the hyped up consumers instead of having it rot in the warehouse.


You hit the nail on the head. Its just another product that companies will be providing for the paintball industry. It will create a nitch nothing more. I highly doubt any fields will convert to .50 paintballs. You may see some pop and maybe support it and include it in their business but none make a "Switch" to .50. That would be a stupid business move. You dont see anyone considering making their field all .43 paintball specific do you?

.68 caliber is a good standard that is already established and proven. Your a moron if you think that .50 is a ploy to change that. ITS just another Nitch product giving another avenue for new players into paintball.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:34 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul06 View Post
People say 50 cal will save the game.......exactly how? Save the talk about marginal costs and per/case sales because if you can't attract players then you aren't bringing in any money.
I hear the talk about players saving money. Well what about all the players with mid and low end markers from companies that WON'T be offering conversion kits? I'm sure someone will say "50 is just an option. You will still have 68 to shoot too". Well then tell me how are field owners suppose to prepare their stock? How many pallets of 68 should they order as opposed to 50? Order too many of one and not the other and some players are gonna suffer and be turned away. Order a ton of both and they will be spending more money then they are already for paint that might not even be used before it goes bad.
So someone please explain how 50 will save anything?
Its will not save this game, and the fact that they think this is hilarious and downright stupid. They have they head up their own butt and you should be ashamed for even taking it as a valid argument and trying to question it. Check the other 18 threads about this discussion. Myself and some others have all made comments on what has to happen to save our sport.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:51 PM #71
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Thats a flat out joke of a statement. Paintballs currently are so freaking cheap its crazy. Riddle me this batman, how much do you think paint used to cost in the early 90's? The late 80's. Its been declining for a while. If you cant afford $30 for a case of paint, but can afford a $1500 paintball marker that just dosnt make sense to me. Learn to control your money better. When I couldnt affored to buy paint for a period of time I gathered as many players as I could and bought the paint in bulk so I could get a discount. Hell I currently get my paint for a little over wholesale just because I filter as many players as I can find to the proshop. In return for bringing the customers to the store the owner gives me deals on paint, free air fills, and discounts on new gear. I'm tired of hearing excuses, do something about it.

If you love paintball you will find a way to play paintball. I have seen players work 2 jobs just so they could play paintball on the weekends. If you have the talent and the drive you can play paintball basically whenever you want.

.50 isnt a replacement for .68, its just another paintball product giving new players an avenue the sport. Its crazy to think that an entire infastructure .68 is going to be replaced.
Once you reach a certain point (when you actually become good) here is how it works. A company is interested in sponsoring your team. They give you a solid price on a package. This company gives you a package this 09 season for us it was gun, hopper, pants, jersey, gloves, and mask. Once the season is over you sell your gun and what ever else you want to make money to buy next seasons package. The amount of money spent on gear stays about the same. You might loose or gain money at the end of the season depending on how good you are at selling. When you finally decide to quit you sell all your gear and just about get all your money back.

Now I agree the average D4-D2 tournament player is getting paint for about $30. This is not expensive for a case of paint. But $30 for a case of 4000 instead of 2000 is a much better deal and you don't need a Masters in Economics to see this.

So how about you go buy a case of .68 paintballs, and I'll go buy a case of .50 for the same price. Oh and at the end of practice I'll have half a case left over for next week.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:57 PM #72
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and your missing the point, the tournament you play in wont be switching to .50.
A different division or a whole new league itself would most likely start. Thats even if this nitch grows that much.

If for some god forsaken reason the organizers of those already well established leagues attempted to do a changeover like that they would be commiting business suicide.

Your .68 paintball league will continue to operate the same as it has and you will buy your gear and sell your gear before and after seasons just like you have. Again .50 isnt a replacement of .68, its just another nitch in the market.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:01 PM #73
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I admire you shot over the bow about how good I am or you are. Saying that your only a good paintball player if you are in Tournaments and are getting sponsers. This leads me to believe a few things about you. You are one of those players which I despise because of an Ego(im not talking about the gun) or your just inexperienced and by that I mean so wrapped up in the small part of the paintball world that you are apart of. Your bringing what has been labeled in the past "speedballer" type of thinking to the discussion that will not do us any good. This isnt about tourneyball, speedball, woodsball, milsim etc. This is about paintball period.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:37 PM #74
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I think making the transition will be long and hard (insert joke), but who knows, it might be worth it
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:17 PM #75
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I admire you shot over the bow about how good I am or you are. Saying that your only a good paintball player if you are in Tournaments and are getting sponsers. This leads me to believe a few things about you. You are one of those players which I despise because of an Ego(im not talking about the gun) or your just inexperienced and by that I mean so wrapped up in the small part of the paintball world that you are apart of. Your bringing what has been labeled in the past "speedballer" type of thinking to the discussion that will not do us any good. This isnt about tourneyball, speedball, woodsball, milsim etc. This is about paintball period.
I've played and plan on playing in Scenario games as well. I'm simply saying that I would rather pay $30 for 4000 as opposed to 2000. And I'm pretty sure the psp is going to allow .50 in 2010.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:33 PM #76
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PSP switching over to .50 would be the downfall of it. I realize there may be some support but a bad move IMHO. But even if it does, think it mail just fail and some other league will take its place.

of course who wouldnt want to pay less for paint. The realization is paint is pretty much as cheap as its going to get.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:42 PM #77
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I said they would allow it i never said anything about switching over
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:59 PM #78
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only thing making .50cal work is if they can balance the fill.

The fill's mass can be changed to a certain point and "IF" .50cal can 1. be heavy 2. break at a distance not in the gun 3. cut wholesale costs by 30% or more then it stands a chance. I doubt this will happen due to the physics involved and cost.

Why are the guns so costly granted inflation but when I bought my 2000 Bushmaster I think it was only 400-500 with trigger programing , LCD display and it shoots fast. Want to make a difference cut costs down on the guns themselves. Atleast the invert mini tried to inject a decent gun at a decent price. Just think about this the conversion kit looks like it will cost the same as a new mini. Now that kinda sad.
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:40 AM #79
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Just reading over the top posts,

curiosity,

we have HP and LP tanks and guns and all that, hard bolts soft bolts right?

brittle paint turny paint **** paint etc? I think theirs room for a market for diff sized paint to cut costs for certain players if that's the way they wanna go with there paint i think it could happen

huh who knows.
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:51 PM #80
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Please don't revive dead threads
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:56 AM #81
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:53 PM #82
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If you make a conversion kit for my Automags and pumps then Ill think about it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:53 PM #83
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Alot of people have left the game due to price and economy these past 2-3 years. If this is cheaper why not embrace it..... Affordability = More Players... Thus saving our game form dying. I dont think 68 cal will ever die out, but our gear wont become obsolete either. There are plenty of gun whores out there that buy the latest and greatest guns when they come out, right! What if the EGO 11 comes out in a strictly .50 cal model??????? Bet your *** people will trade up then!!! The industry wouldnt be doing this if it wasnt good for paintball.. People thought the same thing when electros started to come on the market, and look now. People wont even buy a mechanical marker. I say do what we gotta do to save the game, keep it affordable, and bring back all the people that had to hang it up, as well as bring in an influx of new players. Were lucky this isnt 95'!!! Thats when i started playing!!!! Marbs were a 100.00 a case back then. Welcome .50 CAL!!!!!!!!!
I see your statement... And ill raise you to START PLAYING PUMP
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:30 PM #84
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I see your statement... And ill raise you to START PLAYING PUMP
Pump ftw! Thats the way I save
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