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Old 10-09-2009, 02:53 AM #85
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Could any of this help the battery life?
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:16 AM #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean@smartpartswest View Post
BTW, some more pros....

#1 - A chance for manufacturers to have a common thread barrel. Makes it easier on manufacturers, dealers, and the consumers.
#2 - Paintballs will be smaller, hence, it will may be beneficial for countries who consider 68 caliber paintball guns firearms. The may help open up paintball in those countries such as Germany, Australia, New Zealand... etc.

Food for thought.
Ummm... out of curiosity which manufacturer produced the most uncommonly threaded markers? Hello pot, meet kettle. And I'm sorry, as long as the Gardners are involved we are going to hold the sins of SP against them. The point you may have might involve paintball in those countries, I would simply ask the question to how much research has been done to this?
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:21 AM #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Ummm... out of curiosity which manufacturer produced the most uncommonly threaded markers? Hello pot, meet kettle. And I'm sorry, as long as the Gardners are involved we are going to hold the sins of SP against them. The point you may have might involve paintball in those countries, I would simply ask the question to how much research has been done to this?
are you aware of why they produce the threads the way they did? are you aware that after the SFT, every marker has been the same threads? those threads were also not new...

he is stating that this is a chance for Dye, PE, SP, BL and any other company to sit down and agree on a new standard barrel thread. No more 47 turns of AC threads, no more extra material in the breech... this will allow you to buy any marker and use any barrel... perhaps feedneck methods will be standardized, detents, who knows, but this is a tremendous chance to correct the mistakes of the past...

those who use AC threads refused to stray and created an inferior product once people realized that it can be made better. It is not very often that companies get a clean slate... i think you should welcome the chance. And you know whats even better, when you make the switch to .50, you can still never purchase anything SP...
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:44 AM #88
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I didn't suggest AC threads were all that - but for a company that used as many different threads in the past, and defended the need for it, to be touting a single thread across manufacturers is a little hypocritical is it not? Besides, why do we need a new paintball size to do it. I mean, can't we all just agree on a 68 barrel thread.
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:49 AM #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
I didn't suggest AC threads were all that - but for a company that used as many different threads in the past, and defended the need for it, to be touting a single thread across manufacturers is a little hypocritical is it not? Besides, why do we need a new paintball size to do it. I mean, can't we all just agree on a 68 barrel thread.
They used 2 threads... the PVI shocker used shocker threads, and the design required it... when they came out with the impulse, they use a more coarse thread with a smaller barrel hood. then they used shocker threads on the SFT... since then, they went all impulse threads... You may consider the use of AC threads on certain PL shockers, but those were minimal...
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:45 AM #90
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Originally Posted by Sean@smartpartswest View Post
BTW, some more pros....

#1 - A chance for manufacturers to have a common thread barrel. Makes it easier on manufacturers, dealers, and the consumers.

when I got my shoebox shocker, one of the first it came cocker threaded.
shortly after they started shipping with proprietary threading

when my friend chris bought his first gen impulse it came shocker threaded
shortly after they shipped with its own proprietary threads

way to blaze a trail for standardization

and couldn't there just as easily be a standard barrel thread adopted for 68 caliber as there could be for 50 caliber?

a few of us have been messing around with ballistics calculators,
could you give us the actual weight in grams of a production 50 cal ball?

I plugged the numbers into solidworks
a .500 diameter ball has
.07 cubic inches of volume and 0.79 inches^2 surface area

I made it out of several material to check mass

if it was made from
solid nylon it would come in at 1.23 grams
solid furniture grade acrylic GP comes in at 1.29 grams
UHMW(ultra high molecular weight plastic) 2.49 grams
6061-T6 aluminum 2.90 grams

if you run it through a ballistics calculator the ball needs to be at least 1.5 grams to have comparable flight characteristics to an average 68 cal ball.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:10 AM #91
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Even companies like toys r'us are preparing for a tough Christmas season.
That just makes me lol, ALL companies have been having a tough times the winter holiday season is not the only thing struggling.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:24 AM #92
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Could any of this help the battery life?
Conceivably. A lot of the pros and cons are based on the beleif that a 50 would be lighter - likely less than half as light as a 68. *IF* this is true performance (at least in range, if not in accuracy) will suck. However, less air to propel less mass could equal less dwell time could equal better battery life.

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Old 10-09-2009, 09:44 AM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
I didn't suggest AC threads were all that - but for a company that used as many different threads in the past, and defended the need for it, to be touting a single thread across manufacturers is a little hypocritical is it not? Besides, why do we need a new paintball size to do it. I mean, can't we all just agree on a 68 barrel thread.

The first shoeboxes never had cocker thread. They had their own from the beginning. Why? Heck if I know. Then the Impulse came out and we put on a short thread shocker barrel then decided to make it better and the Impulse Thread was born. Then the SFT came out, and we kept the standard shocker barrel. The Shocker thread looks very similar to a cocker thread. But it is not.

After the SFT, we have now gone to a universal thread to all of our markers. Except for those pesky Private Labels with cocker thread every now and then.

I have several cockers. I have built more custom cockers working for KAPP back in the day then most of you will see if you lives. And to be honest.. I always hated the damn cocker threads.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:05 AM #94
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So... why can't we make a standard barrel threading in 68? I mean, seems like a massive change just to get a standard barrel threading doesn't it?
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:31 AM #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
So... why can't we make a standard barrel threading in 68? I mean, seems like a massive change just to get a standard barrel threading doesn't it?
That was 1 thing that COULD happen. This is NOT because we want a standard barrel threading...
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:03 PM #96
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my question is why doesn't SP goto cocker threads on thier guns??

Cocker threads were adopted by ICD and others and seems to be the answer.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:04 PM #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthrprey View Post
my question is why doesn't SP goto cocker threads on thier guns??

Cocker threads were adopted by ICD and others and seems to be the answer.
cocker threads have too long of a barrel hood, too many turns to remove, and arent really needed... Angel has their own threads too... The ion-nxt-imp threads should be the standard, but people dont see it...
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:08 PM #98
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cocker threads have too long of a barrel hood, too many turns to remove, and arent really needed... Angel has their own threads too... The ion-nxt-imp threads should be the standard, but people dont see it...
Isn't the ion / nxt / imp thread protected as propietary? Correct me if I'm wrong please.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:10 PM #99
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Isn't the ion / nxt / imp thread protected as propietary? Correct me if I'm wrong please.
hell if I know... and I am unsure if you are asking a legit question or trying to bash...

Quote:
Possibly the single biggest misconception against Smart Parts is that they created Shocker and Impulse barrels to make more money. This is a rumor, started to discredit the company by those that don't understand the production process and reasoning that went into the production of the guns.
Shockers were the first electronic closed bolt marker available and thus the chance for chopping was much higher. In a situation then and now, the ability to remove the barrel for cleaning in a timely fashion was ideal. Shocker barrel threads are short, double-lead threads which unscrew in only two full turns, instead of 5-6 turns with Autococker threads. Additionally, the Shocker body design could be made shorter if it didn't use Autococker threads (which require a 1.4" barrel hood, not necessary on every single marker out there). The other reason is that Autococker barrel threads are very fine and as a result easier to strip or crossthread than Shocker threads. These considerations were all taken into effect when the marker was released and this is why Shocker threads were created.
Impulse threads were later created for similar reasons. The Impulse body design wasn't long enough to use Shocker barrels (let alone Autococker, which are even longer), so the original Impulse markers were actually threaded with a 1/4" shorter Shocker-threaded barrel. This posed an inevitable problem of people using original Shocker barrels on their Impulses, which would only thread some of the length and not be effective (increase the chance of stripping due to overtightening, breaking off during impact, or other problems). For this reason the thread profile was changed to the Impulse thread to help prevent confusion. Impulse threads are even more coarse than Shocker ones, as well as being shorter in length, making it a premier barrel profile for shorter markers that can utilize them.
During the design process these considerations have to be weighed out. The fact that most other markers use Autococker threads doesn't mean Autococker threads are the "best", it just means they're the most prominent. The choice to start using a different thread is a sound production decision in this case, backed by logical engineering, not greed. Remember, Smart Parts isn't the only company that makes barrels for their gun. Other barrel manufacturers profit from barrel sales as well.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:36 PM #100
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I have one major concern that could possibly bring pricing up to where it is now regardless of material.

The fact that the entire process for creating these things would need to be retooled...millions more invested in new machines and equipment to produce them. That will effect the price and quite possibly make it go up compared to .68 caliber paintballs.

Unless the industry can just switch the molds without investing in new machines I don't see how that is a profitable venture for them.

Nothing would be retooled. I work for a prototyping company, a sphere is one of the cheapest and easiest tools to make. 0 draft problems, no need for special lifters or inserts. Tooling would be an up front cost to the manufactures but it is in any "new product" With a smaller ball taking less paint to fill in turn should drop costs drastically.

The biggest problem in cost i have seen recently is that paint prices have gone up in the past couple years due to the economy. If you have to spend $100+ to convert your gun, in turn saving you even $10 a case, you play every weekend at 1 case if not more your still saving hundreds of dollars in the long run. Id like to see where this .50 ball goes, change inst always bad, new materials, formulas are created every year to make the paint we shoot as good as possible. my $.02
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:36 PM #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthrprey View Post
my question is why doesn't SP goto cocker threads on thier guns??

Cocker threads were adopted by ICD and others and seems to be the answer.
ICD did it at the end. I even liked their original threads too. The barrel came off really fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Isn't the ion / nxt / imp thread protected as propietary? Correct me if I'm wrong please.
It is NOT proprietary.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:40 PM #102
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ICD did it at the end. I even liked their original threads too. The barrel came off really fast.
came off super fast and the O-ring held it in place really well.

I miss them
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Old 10-10-2009, 02:46 AM #103
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#2 - Paintballs will be smaller, hence, it will may be beneficial for countries who consider 68 caliber paintball guns firearms. The may help open up paintball in those countries such as Germany, Australia, New Zealand... etc.

I don´t think so cause the problem in germany is really something else...

One page before I posted some reasons why not only the price drop will help to attract new players over here.
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