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View Poll Results: Do you really want this?
yes 134 30.66%
no 303 69.34%
Voters: 437. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2009, 08:08 PM #22
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come on guys be optomistic.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:17 PM #23
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Im not sure why everyone thinks the .50 cal paintball isnt going to work well. I mean its not like the people at planet eclipse and dye are stupid there obviously going to/have tested the .50 cal ball and it must have shown them some good stuff because its the dumbest thing in the world to think they would just make conversion kits and new guns if they didn't already know the .50 cal paintball is a better and cheaper paintball.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:41 PM #24
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its just that .68 cal has been through the sport through everything why change it theres nothing wrong with it....okay what if .50 cal is better every heard of the saying "dont fix it if its not broken"
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:43 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintball4life124 View Post
its just that .68 cal has been through the sport through everything why change it theres nothing wrong with it....okay what if .50 cal is better every heard of the saying "dont fix it if its not broken"
then why dont you shoot a brass eagle raptor? or drive a wagon?
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:57 PM #26
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its real its very real
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:09 PM #27
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I don't want the change to happen like everyone else it seems but lets be reasonable here. Before we had HDTV, what was wrong with SD? I remember being skeptical about it UNTIL I actually got to watch HD. And think of how huge of an industry change that has been? Comparatively, it was a much bigger change then going to .50 from .68 will be if it happens.

Right now, I guarantee non of us average Joes have even shot .50 cal so all we know from our own experiences are the pros of shooting .68 and the theoretical cons of .50. We're not going to realize how much of an improvement .50 is going to be until we've made the change. I know right now I'd never go back to standard def.

And for those complaining about all the useless .68 gear we're gonna have and the money we'd need to spend to buy more gear, get a grip. I just threw out the last SDTV in my house a couple months ago, and still have countless cassettes, VHS players, CD players, etc. that aren't worth a dime.

The point is that changes do happen, and they're usually for the better. If .50 sucks compared to .68, then there won't be change at all. If .50 does happen, no one is saying you have to buy .50 gear immediately, sooner or later, we'd all need new gear to play with anyways, and chances are at that point, your new gun will be a .50cal.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:40 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatua View Post
Right now, I guarantee non of us average Joes have even shot .50 cal
I've shot .50 cal before, as well as .43 and .40 cal paint (not quite old school enough to have personally shot .62). None of these smaller paints ever had "better" performance before.

Right now I'm waiting on someone to give a proper mass measurement of these new .50's. An accurate diameter measurement would be nice as well (since a .68 cal ball never exactly .68). Hype is meaningless, data is everything.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:51 PM #29
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I will be supporting .50 cal movement 100%
if any industry leaders are reading... testing, marketing, anything - I am behind the switch.
new gear doesn't scare me... I buy new stuff every other year anyway (yep.. I am one of the few people that actually actively support the industry with my $)
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:55 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalKitty View Post
I will be supporting .50 cal movement 100%
if any industry leaders are reading... testing, marketing, anything - I am behind the switch.
new gear doesn't scare me... I buy new stuff every other year anyway (yep.. I am one of the few people that actually activing support the industry with my $)
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:11 PM #31
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someone make 10000000000000000000000000 fake emails and vote no....
.50 cal is gay...
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:25 PM #32
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Originally Posted by lioutlaws316 View Post
no keep .68 why change now ......i want one reason to realy change now?why not 10 years ago why now??? why not 5 yrs ago
Why not now?
...Sorry, but your argument makes no sense.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:33 PM #33
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More accurate at shorter distance!

I'm all for change I'm tired of going to big games and it's a
spray and pray event. Too much long ball, everyone has an apex and the guy
who shot you is standing in a different zip code.
5o cal is going to bring back the fun in paintball more close quarter combat,
more strategy. The balls will fly straighter but for a shorter distant.
Cheaper paint, lighter weight, more shots per tank.
What more needs to be said!
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:36 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrlyo View Post
someone make 10000000000000000000000000 fake emails and vote no....
.50 cal is gay...
this may be far beyond your comprehension, but the paintball world is bigger than the tourney players on PbN... this change benifits hundreds of thousands of people that don't even play the sport right now due to the insane start up costs and paint every weekend... Soon they will be able to afford to play every weekend.. we will no longer see pros, and potential pros quit due to money issues
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:52 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemroc View Post
Why not now?
...Sorry, but your argument makes no sense.
but whats wrong with .68 its been fine for 20yrs
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:32 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lioutlaws316 View Post
but whats wrong with .68 its been fine for 20yrs
the .68 caliber round can no longer hold the weight of the paintball industry.
it does not meet the needs of paintball in these times. what's wrong with anything? what's wrong with staying on planet earth instead of spending billions on the space program? what's wrong with a 1932 Chevy coupe that we need a 2k10 Cadillac XTS? are you kidding me? we can do better... the sport is constantly evolving, as is the gear, paint and players.
adapt or be left behind.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:21 AM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalKitty View Post
the .68 caliber round can no longer hold the weight of the paintball industry.
it does not meet the needs of paintball in these times. what's wrong with anything? what's wrong with staying on planet earth instead of spending billions on the space program? what's wrong with a 1932 Chevy coupe that we need a 2k10 Cadillac XTS? are you kidding me? we can do better... the sport is constantly evolving, as is the gear, paint and players.
adapt or be left behind.
WRONG

Too bad so sad that we are in a recession. Deal with it. The .68 caliber paintball has met every standard we have needed it to. Paintball is not the only industry suffering from the recession.

Give one good reason why .68 doesn't suffice? Your analogy doesn't make sense either. Companies are trying to make more money off of us by switching to .50 cal. They aren't trying to land on the moon. Also, your car example really only relates to paintball guns themselves.

Please stop spreading ignorance. Those of you who do not understand why so many of us are against .50 cal paintballs, please just do the math. Physics tells all.

If you don't know the physics behind it, now is a great time to familiarize yourself with the information. PbN is NOT the place to learn your physics. Smart Parts has made claims that their products have defied the laws of physics, so whats to stop them and every other company from making similar claims again?

Research it and make the right, educated decision.

.50 caliber paint =
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:28 AM #38
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simply, the .50 round has more potential than the .68 round

funny every time the "physics" argument comes up the final argument is that players don't want to have to buy new gear. that's the only leg anyone against .50 cal has to stand on (and some anarchist conspirator attitude against major paintball manufacturers) I can understand your reluctance to switch to something you know nothing about, but when you see the benefits first hand you'll change your mind
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:43 AM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalKitty View Post
simply, the .50 round has more potential than the .68 round

funny every time the "physics" argument comes up the final argument is that players don't want to have to buy new gear. that's the only leg anyone against .50 cal has to stand on (and some anarchist conspirator attitude against major paintball manufacturers) I can understand your reluctance to switch to something you know nothing about, but when you see the benefits first hand you'll change your mind
Ya you're right, the laws of physics are a horrible argument to bring up


You seem to offer lots of voice that .50 cal has more potential than .68, please actually explain why. If you search my recent posts, you will find a high percentage explaining the downfalls of .50 cal in comparison to .68. I don't care to type the same things over and over, so they are scattered in various sections of PbN.

Offer premises to your arguments, or I will consider them unreasonable and therefore unsound.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:03 AM #40
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it's all based on speculation since you have no solid figures on which to base your "laws of physics"
you know nothing of weight or mass, therefore all arguments are invalid.
I am pointing out the clear benefits - price and efficiency.
since players that have tested the round extensively have already put the trajectory argument to rest by repeatedly stating the paint easily shot accurately across a paintball field, and that the players did not experience any more pain from the shot (the arguments have been going back and forth both ways, either the focused pressure argument that the paint will hurt more or the lower mass argument that you won't be able to feel it)
based on the fact that you have no experience or real knowledge of the .50 round yet continue to argue against it, and those that do have experience with it are all for it... I am going to continue my support for it.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:06 AM #41
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Well this is what Tom Kaye had to say about .50

http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...47#post2637947

Quote:
Hello Everyone,

Well I don't come to the forum for a few days while I am chasing dinos and look what pops up.

First of all, I have actually PLAYED with 50 cal back in the day using Budd's Sniper. In the 80's 50 cal held the same hope it does today, a way to sell cheaper paint and get more of it in the gun. Back then it was a double bonus since a 12 gram would fire a whole lot more 50's than 68's. As you can imagine, the 50 had piss poor accuracy and didn't break. It was quickly given up on along with 62 cal. promoted by Tippmann.

My read of the story tells me something different that I will SPECULATE on. Richmond sold his company from what I understand, and likely has a specific non-compete. The 50 cal ball probably gets around this and this could be the major motivation. I know personally because we have the same thing between Pepper Ball and FN, in our case the weight of the ball makes the difference.

I have to think that as you have already speculated, they took the ability to make fragile paint and mixed in a heavy fill to get a small 3.3 gram paintball. This should in fact be more accurate and fly farther at the same velocity. The reduction in frontal area is a big plus and the issues with a smaller ball and vortex shedding should not negate all of those gains.

The big trick will be to see if they break well. With a 50 you are distributing the energy no matter what over a smaller area. The smaller shape of the ball makes it inherently harder to break all things being equal. I don't think you can go much thinner in the paint shell and still be able to seal it together so they are probably making the shell tensile strength weaker. By my estimations they will hurt more with 3.3 grams at 300 fps.

The fill will absolutely be the most challenging part hands down. I calculated that a 50 has .07 cu inch of fill against the 68 at .16. So a bit better than 2-1. In order to make a heavier 50, you have to come up with a NON-TOXIC fill that's TWICE as heavy. This is no easy task. Most liquids hover around a specific gravity of 1-1.5 ish. There are liquids that get up to 2.0 but they are all toxic that I know of. We used liquids to 3.0 in the early 90's when we were investigating paintball accuracy and I still have the stuff today because you can't throw it away.

So here is the specific problem the way I see it. In order to up the weight of the fill you have to put some type of particle in it. Ground rock, powdered metal (bismuth) etc. We went down this road, the problem was that we could never inject a slurry through a needle without the needle plugging up no matter what we did. Eventually we gave up and put the powder in first and the fluid in after. Today's gelatin machines absolutely depend on a needle injecting the fluid into the ball as it pinches off the seam. I am dying to see how they accomplish this but Richmond has some pretty smart people around him.

Other problems you don't think about are things like the size of the holes in the mask. A 50 can squeeze through a pretty small hole in a rubber mask guard. My question is who is going to build a motorized hopper for these guns???

The can fit way more holes in the drum of the gelatin machine so the output per hour per machine will probably be more than double having an impact on cost. The fill has to add to the price so we will see how it shakes out. Remember to calculate the price per POUND of 50 vs 68 paintballs to see if there was really an economic advantage.

In the final equation my personal opinion is that its a bad idea for paintball only because it puts us that much closer to airsoft. If cheaper smaller balls are a good idea, why not get the cheapest smallest balls you can find (airsoft)? We already made the guns look mil-sim and hands down the airsoft guns look cooler and go full auto. So I don't personally understand it but hey, Richmond made WAY more money in paintball than I ever did so he must see things I don't.

My final comment. Everyone seems to agree that the paintball industry has been in trouble for some time. If I was god-of-paintball and wanted to get the industry going. I would get all the existing manufacturers together and force them to agree to licensing anyone their patents for 5 years for a dollar. This would bring a flurry of new businesses back into the market and you would have a flood of new products and cool ideas. In my opinion, that would help paintball more than anything.

AGD
He makes some good points. I also do not support .50 cal for those that may wonder.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:17 AM #42
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all the speculation is based on assumption of all things being equal.

I have enormous amount of respect for Tom Kaye, but what he says I find rather interesting
Quote:
"I don't personally understand it but hey, Richmond made WAY more money in paintball than I ever did so he must see things I don't."
obviously
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