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View Poll Results: God's action level
God started the spark for life on Earth, and then left things alone entirely. He has been largely hands off, simply got the ball rolling 5 41.67%
God got life on the right track, implemented evolution, and did some basic guiding to ensure man's ascension 4 33.33%
God started life and helped man largely in various ways in our primitive days, helped us invent things and listens to prayers 2 16.67%
God keeps tabs on all people on Earth, punishes those who are bad and helps those who are good 0 0%
Not only does God micromanage people and punish sinners, we are born with our death date already determined, and God has already planned some of the future for humanity 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2012, 08:46 PM #1
Tuff
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How much does "God" micromanage?

This obviously assumes he is real. Skeptics can play along, and entertain the notion that a god does exist since the method I use (I think) makes a god existing slightly more credible to exist (even if I have major doubts) to me at least.

There are various levels of control a theoretical god could have. For example - let's assume humans continue to advance technilogically without blowing ourselves up. Would we make another species and jumpstart them on a planet far away? If so, how much would we micromanage? Everything? Just get them started and become hands off?

See, this is a question when discussing a god. There are people who think God is like Santa Claus - he'll see you when you're sleeping, when you're awake, knows when you are bad or good, etc. A question I have had taking this into account as a possibility, is: "Why on Earth would god care what I am doing? There are 7 billion of us on this planet he made - why would he give a **** if I am blowing coke, watching football, or reading a book? Why would a god want us all to behave and act like Monks? Wouldn't that be boring? Doesn't he want us to progress as a species so we aren't a failed creation of his?"

Do you think God simply created humans, jumpstarted us with things like fire, ability to evolve, and took a step back to see what we would do? Does he visit Earth? Or does he micromanage at a up close level, even walking amongst us or extracting justice on certain people and answering prayers?

For the utterly non religious: If you were in charge of a planet, how much would you micromanage if you created a species?
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:31 PM #2
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I'd like to think it's like Dogma and god really is personable. In reality god can't be all that is claimed and micromanage anything.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:29 AM #3
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Why do we always have to talk about the Abrahamic God? Aren't you guys bored of this **** yet?
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:06 PM #4
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:09 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Why do we always have to talk about the Abrahamic God? Aren't you guys bored of this **** yet?
It's the only god who actively tries to impinge upon my daily life.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:12 PM #6
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No one cares how you live your life. Do what YOU want
That sounded better to me as a kid. Then you get a few hairs older and realize it is impossible to promote and maintain virtuous behavior with this attitude. I dont know about you, but I would rather live amongst men who exhibit self control, piety, nobility and temperament rather than men slavishly devoted to satisfying base desires.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:28 PM #7
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It's the only god who actively tries to impinge upon my daily life.
Assuming it is true, lashing out against it makes us nothing more than petulant children.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:30 PM #8
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:32 PM #9
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Yes, I am sick of reading about the Abrahamic God. I don't give two ****s about it/him/whateverthe**** you pretend it to be, unless of course one of the members of the House Science Committee claims evolution is "lies told by satan". Then I get upset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
That sounded better to me as a kid. Then you get a few hairs older and realize it is impossible to promote and maintain virtuous behavior with this attitude. I dont know about you, but I would rather live amongst men who exhibit self control, piety, nobility and temperament rather than men slavishly devoted to satisfying base desires.
And it is best if people do this of their own volition. You'll only get what you expect out of people, and threatening people with damnation unless they behave the way you (or the church) want is ****ed up.

Give people the opportunity and they'll rise to the occasion. Expect **** and that's what you'll get. Fortunately many have ignored the Church's expectations (GK Chesterton was wrong).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Assuming it is true, lashing out against it makes us nothing more than petulant children.
Lashing out against the imaginations of other people which are used as a tool of oppression is not the act of petulant children.
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Last edited by Umami : 10-08-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:34 PM #10
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So submit to the greater Good or die by the sword. Christianity has gone too soft.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:40 PM #11
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Yes, I am sick of reading about the Abrahamic God. I don't give two ****s about it/him/whateverthe**** you pretend it to be, unless of course one of the members of the House Science Committee claims evolution is "lies told by satan". Then I get upset.



And it is best if people do this of their own volition. You'll only get what you expect out of people, and threatening people with damnation unless they behave the way you (or the church) want is ****ed up.

Give people the opportunity and they'll rise to the occasion. Expect **** and that's what you'll get. Fortunately many have ignored the Church's expectations (GK Chesterton was wrong).



Lashing out against the imaginations of other people which are used as a tool of oppression is not the act of petulant children.
Most people struggle with basic literacy. They need a tradition forced down their throats. Gives them a sense of being and purpose higher than themselves that they ultimately fail to acquire on their own. You call oppression, I call it liberation. Liberation from themselves. If that makes sense.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:02 PM #12
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Explain how it is liberating them from themselves..
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:06 PM #13
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Liberation from themselves. If that makes sense.
Nope.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:31 PM #14
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Most people lack impulse control, discipline and direction. Without a real or imagined authority (higher than themselves), they fall, predictably, into patterns of behavior which may be called anything but virtuous. You guys are bright, I don't think I need to say much more.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:02 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Most people lack impulse control, discipline and direction. Without a real or imagined authority (higher than themselves), they fall, predictably, into patterns of behavior which may be called anything but virtuous. You guys are bright, I don't think I need to say much more.
Religion doesn't prevent that fall, it merely teaches one how to hide it. If piety was truly indicative of discipline, we wouldn't have so many religious pedophiles and televangelists.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:15 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Most people lack impulse control, discipline and direction. Without a real or imagined authority (higher than themselves), they fall, predictably, into patterns of behavior which may be called anything but virtuous. You guys are bright, I don't think I need to say much more.
The threat of damnation is no longer compelling. What now?

It is demonstrated time and time again that people don't need external authority to develop impulse control. Why do the Abrahamic religions fail so thoroughly to address this? How are they still valid in any way?
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:17 PM #17
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Religion doesn't prevent that fall, it merely teaches one how to hide it. If piety was truly indicative of discipline, we wouldn't have so many religious pedophiles and televangelists.
I wouldn't regard charlatans as being pious, no matter their claims. I don't believe merely having Tradition in place for the lower strata is enough. You need it throughout the hierarchy. That being said, anything that has the potential of preventing the fall is better than having nothing at all.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:26 PM #18
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The threat of damnation is no longer compelling. What now?

It is demonstrated time and time again that people don't need external authority to develop impulse control. Why do the Abrahamic religions fail so thoroughly to address this? How are they still valid in any way?
Need is one thing. Effectiveness is another. I don't need music to elicit X feeling. That doesn't detract from the Fact that it is an effective means of eliciting X feeling. See where I'm going with this?

Abrahamic religions aren't valid. At all. I'll explain why in a bit. Actually I'm just going to quote evola since he puts what I want to say better than I could. I actually need to go home and dig up the book. Till then.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:05 PM #19
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The Abrahamic concept of God is the only valid concept. If we are the creation of God, and we possess the ability to think/comprehend/etc, God must also have that innate quality. There is no aspect of our existence, or any existence in the universe, that is not also held by an Absolute God.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:19 PM #20
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For those who do not believe in a god - Would any of you be more likely to micromanage a civilization or race if you were to create a universe and watch it from afar? Say - 500 years in the future you buy a "Make a universe" kit and can make primitive life and watch it grow. How hands on would you be?
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:21 PM #21
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I'd assume it would end up like a Tamagotchi pet to most people. Buy it, start it, forget about it and it dies of starvation.
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