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Old 09-03-2009, 11:52 PM #1
master2003
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Anti Law

Has anyone thought about anti law?
The only local scenario field that I know of, allows unlimited law lauchers/rockets. Tanks rarely last a few minutes.
I'm building a tank and would like to use it for more than 2 minutes.
I was thinking something like a fan or leaf blower mounted to the side.
Low tech and simple is better.

Any better ideas.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:25 AM #2
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I dont think a fan or leaf blower is going to change the flight path of a 230FPS nerfy. I like the thought trail you are going down though....keep tossing those idea's around. Maybe a net cannon to trap the nerf in the air...if you were fast enough and accurate enough to deploy it as the nerf was coming in (and you could actually talk the field owner into letting you deploy it). Smoke dropped around the tank might take the LAW shooters attention enough to cause a miss, at least until it got thick enough to actually obscure the tank. Just a couple of brain storm ideas......
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:37 AM #3
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How about slat/cage armor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cage_armor

Of course assuming you could get field owners to "let it work"
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:37 AM #4
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Something like this would work if you can deplot it fast enough.

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Old 09-04-2009, 07:55 AM #5
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we've played around with something like this. It's really amusing to watch this in action. It also works on over zealous grunts that think it's okay to storm a tank. Haven't used it in live game play yet. Problem we run across is when you encounter one LAW at a field, there are 20 other right next to it. Which is why my opinion on limiting LAWs is so strong. The set up we've played with is bulky and pricey. it's just not effective to have 30 of these nets on each side of the tank to combat each and every rocket pointed at us at any given time.

Best Anti-Law ever: Infantry Support. Tanks shouldn't lead the charge. Tanks should be utilized just behind the skirmish line to reinforce the weak areas and punch through just enough to open up a hole for the infantry to exploit. Driving around the field without coordination with the troops isn't going to make you an "elite" unit. It just proves you'd rather play with yourself and be able to boast about how cool you are to work alone, than work with the rest of the players and accomplish something. When we work with infantry support, if a LAW even makes it in the area, every single gun turns to that guy and it's all you hear screaming about. When we are inserted "Hot" without infantry support, it's like fishing with dynamite for the LAWs guys.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:16 AM #6
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In the budget. Working on how to use this and not have to replace each nerf shot at us
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:01 PM #7
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Stevebski is of course correct. Everyone seems to forget to support the tanks, and that they are FAR from indestructable. Infantry support is the key to useing a tank to its fullest potential. The only problem is getting your General to assign enough grunts to do the job....or having enough who will actually hang around to do it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:06 PM #8
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I once saw a tank fire a law rocket at a law roket by acident and knock it out of the air. Probably never will happen again. But the fan idea might work, espically if the law rocket fired at the tank was from long range or in a arc. There might be a chance of seting it off course, but your going to need a really powerful fan.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:36 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo27909 View Post
Stevebski is of course correct. Everyone seems to forget to support the tanks, and that they are FAR from indestructable. Infantry support is the key to useing a tank to its fullest potential. The only problem is getting your General to assign enough grunts to do the job....or having enough who will actually hang around to do it.
I appreciate the kind words. I've been behind the wheel and on foot enough times with tanks to see what works and what doesn't. It also helps that I work 24 hour shifts and have some down time to work things out in my head, on paper, and in internet forums to see just how best to utilize the tools we bring to the field. I find it best to link up with another organized scenario team prior to the event itself and recruit them into being our infantry support. When the General says "hey you 50 guys over here, you're gonna run tank support" they don't ever do what he says. 3 of them will actually provide support, 12 of them will have our backs...waaaay back if you know what I mean, and the rest will get out of line of sight from the General and wander off to do their own thing. If we can't recruit, we try to find the spot on the field where there is the most firing and come to a stop about 20 feet behind the front lines and sweep parallel to the lines. If we see a weakness in the defensive position we'll sit on it until we chew through it from behind our guys. The second we lose our protection, we back off. We had a bit of a problem at NJ Nam this past year, and once at Battle of the Bulge in Bowie years ago, was when our insertion point for tanks was overrun and we were starting surrounded by LAWs players who had time to set up a nice ambush. The second our front bumper broke the field boundary, we had 5 or 6 nerfs bouncing off of us. When it gets to that point, and we can't start with infantry, I now know I'm not gonna take my tank on the field. It'll sit in the parking lot.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:35 PM #10
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Wow, great response!
Possibly a fan like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45nL3eONuk
I'm sure it would have enough power to repel a nerf rocket.
I would probably use an old weedeater motor and use compressed air instead of gas.
Faster start up for quick response to threats.

The problem with infantry supporting tanks is that laws can double the range a paintball gun can.
The fact that anyone with $25 can go to the local hardware store and make a law cannon and have unlimited ammo is quite annoying. Potentially it would be cheaper and easier to play "law cannon nerf wars" than it would be to actually play paintball. Why even bring a paintball gun, just use your $25 law cannon and reusable $1 ammo.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:25 PM #11
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I think you'll need a lot more CFM out of a fan to knock the nerf off trajectory.

As far as the higher FPS and unlimited ammo, that you'll have to address with the producers at the field. Phenix is lowering the chrono of the LAWs, limiting the rounds, and rumor has it when you retrieve your nerf, you are out. Go back and rejuve to be back in play. Also, rumor has it that only the person carrying the LAW can carry nerfs. None of this LAW guy carries the regulated 3 rounds and everyone else in your squad carries a dozen rounds. If anyone gets caught smuggling rounds they get infracted. Just rumors for the later parts but that makes a lot of sense and satisfies both sides. The tanks get to move onto the field, and the LAWs guys get to use their toys still.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:28 PM #12
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Guys, I dont believe that high powered fans nor shooting nets are going to stop or mis-guide the entourage of Nerfs being shot at us. However I did enjoy viewing the few posts with videos covering the subject. As a few others have said the best way to have a chance in a game is limiting the RPG's and rockets. And hopefully getting infantry support to take them out or distract to give the tank time to manuever. We are there for the infantry but in most instances they are not there for us. Perhaps many players dont realize the significance of tank support. Experienced scenerio and team players have seamed to grasp this concept. Yea, tanks are cool to look and shoot at in all perspectives. There have been many times when I was supporting a infantry attack behind my team. The next thing you know they are gone for some reason and your left out in the open to defed yourself. Most cases its not long until the tank will be out. I got lucky a few times at Skirmish ION when my tank advanced on a position and began firing making people duck or run. Our infantry in that area advanced and overran the position. Thats the way it should work.

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But, then on most fields where things are not regulated we will continue to recieve the blitz of rockets.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:28 AM #13
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I think the best way to take out an incoming rocket would be with a net gun. I would probably mount it on the gunner turret to allow it to swivel. When you are engaging AT guys or another tank, your gunner should be focusing on them already. As you see the enemy fire the rocket you fire net. Unless you carried multiple nets it would have to be a one shot only weapon in a firefight until you can have a grunt retrieve the net for you. Facing a squad of AT guys it wont do much, but in a 1v1 with enemy armor/AT it could be the advantage you need to stay alive long enough to knock them out. Here is a link to a DIY page on making the net gun that jvtech showed. http://www.instructables.com/id/Build_A_Net_Gun/
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:07 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master2003 View Post
Has anyone thought about anti law?
The only local scenario field that I know of, allows unlimited law lauchers/rockets. Tanks rarely last a few minutes.
I'm building a tank and would like to use it for more than 2 minutes.
I was thinking something like a fan or leaf blower mounted to the side.
Low tech and simple is better.

Any better ideas.

fields really need to balance the tank to A/T weapon ratio or Tankers wont bring their tanks their.your best shot is to use your tank cannon to blow bunkers ect.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:09 PM #15
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Originally Posted by jvtech View Post
Something like this would work if you can deplot it fast enough.


lmao thats actually pretty cool. but are you good enough to see the nerf coming and fire the net is the question
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:51 PM #16
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nets!

Guys, This shooting the net idea isnt going to work. Interesting idea. Start shooting nets and people will think that Spiderman is on the field. As Steve indicated infrantry is our only option. The problem is finding it. Occasionally you'll find players willing to run missiions to take out the RPG guys. The only way to combat the numerous laws is for the field owners to allow the tanks to shoot paint granades and paint shot at them. If they are in a bunker then we should be allowed to shoot at the bunker with a nerf rocket. If a person gets hit by one of these sponge projectiles theres no greater risk then getting railed up close with a marker and a barrage of paintballs.

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Old 10-07-2009, 10:29 AM #17
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Guys, This shooting the net idea As Steve indicated infrantry is our only option.
No, they are not. A nerf can be tracked with a variety of sensors and engaged with any number of servo driven turrets. CMUcams, LIDAR, generic webcams, etc. Keyed to shape, keyed to color, keyed to size and speed, etc, etc.

There is only one question, "How much do you want to spend to get it done?"

edit: If your tank doesn't already have a computerized fire control system, you are amazingly obsolete, and as 10shot called it... "the fat kid on the field"
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:48 AM #18
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The best thing for a tank is to have a team in support, you're going to invest alot into a tank system so invest in a team that can work with the tank. While a LAW can easily doulbe the accurate range of a paintball gun they also require a clear line of sight for that distance, meaning law shooters at range need to be some what exposed. The only real hurdle to all this is that due to a tanks firer rate of fire and lack of visibility they're often shooting at a slower speeds making them sell effective for support as they can't shoot as far as ground troops.

Implamenting a tank on the field is a very difficult under taking best done in an relatively large, well organized group of players. A tank can be a powerfull tool or a lot of frustration, you need to spend a lot more planning off the field then you'll ever get playing on the field.

As far as LAW/SMAW's goes at events, a lot the major producers have a limit either by how many rockets are available or by MOS cards as too who can actually use a SWAM which is probably the better method giving the SWAM player a chance to really play and not having the SWAM being a one or 2 time thing.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:53 PM #19
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The best weapon on the tank is the infantry that is with it. Lets face it, the tank is mostly an intimidation tool. It is the infantry that is with it that makes the tank successful.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:54 PM #20
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We actually fielded a tank (Blast Camp, Hobart IN, Sep't 20th) that did not get hit once with either a LAW or grenade the whole day of the scenario game.
This was due to a number of innovations we found successful. The first is recon by fire, hitting all the edges of the foliage cover possible, and especially when going around corners. The second is effective trampoline type armor, elastic netting strung over the front and turret of the tank that both paintballs and nerfs will be deflected by, and third by the vehicle serving as an armored personnel carrier so that we carried our own infantry to deploy in hot spots.
Last but not least, our tanks are electrically powered, and therefor silent. Your gas motored vehicles can be heard a mile off, completely canceling the element of surprise.
Lets face it, everyone plays basically to have fun, and there aren't many in the bunch who enjoy taking orders. The only thing that works is to have a cadre of people who serve as officers who the players on your side are introduced to at the beginning of the game. They should be suitably attired, and easily recognized on the field. Once they have their orders, they can get in and push groups to perform parts of the overall strategy.
The point has to be made that a tank is not an asset to your side, but a liability unless it is protected by infantry from the rocket launchers. Every time your tank gets taken out, it's a big divot in your score. Your officer cadre has a duty to win the game, and therefor to get your players to back the tank.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:10 PM #21
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Originally Posted by Wayoldschool View Post
We actually fielded a tank (Blast Camp, Hobart IN, Sep't 20th) that did not get hit once with either a LAW or grenade the whole day of the scenario game.
Quote:
The second is effective trampoline type armor, elastic netting strung over the front and turret of the tank that both paintballs and nerfs will be deflected by,
Those 2 statements do not jive. How can armor help if you were never hit? Plus, once a law hits, your choice of construction material for armor is irrelevant. You're dead, unless you get special rules from your promoter.

Quote:
and third by the vehicle serving as an armored personnel carrier so that we carried our own infantry to deploy in hot spots.
More often that not, this is very illegal, as it is against insurance regulations. Players are going to have a hard time embarking or jumping out of something they're not allowed to even be close to.


Quote:
The point has to be made that a tank is not an asset to your side, but a liability unless it is protected by infantry from the rocket launchers. Every time your tank gets taken out, it's a big divot in your score. Your officer cadre has a duty to win the game, and therefor to get your players to back the tank.
That depends entirely on the promoter. I've played >60 games, all over this country, and have never once seen tank kills been worth points. Generals aren't even worth points anymore... why would a tank be? That makes no sense.

If your tank is not an asset, it's because you have the wrong payloads, no defenses, a bad overall design, and very poor strategy. This isn't a real tank. A real tank is designed to kill other tanks, where infantry support is required. These are mobile anti-infantry platforms, and have to be designed and played as such.
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