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Old 02-27-2014, 05:10 PM #1
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Pump Kit Question

So I am looking at building a mini orracle pump build. I have this style bosy/asa:



I am wondering if this pump guide will fit through my front block.


I have a plan for building a custom pump set-up and the equipment to do so but if this part doesn't fit I am dead in the water.

Also, if this won't fit, could you point me in the direction of one that might?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:53 PM #2
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Pump kits screw directly into the body. That looks like an Empire Sniper guide rod, totally not what you're looking for.

You want a 2k mini pump kit, something like this:
http://paintballgateway.com/ccmmiau2kdep.html

It replaces the front block and has a VASA. There were a few companies that made them, but I don't know which ones still do. I know the CCM ones come up now and then in the used market.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:17 PM #3
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Yea but that guide rod screws into the same banjo bolt threads as the kit with the built in Asa doesn't it?

I'm not arguing... Just curious.

I'm asking because I like my angled Asa and I can fab the rest of the parts for that kit for a lot cheaper than $170. So if I can just run that guide rod through my current front block and fab a pump handle and other parts I'd like to give it a go for a bit of a custom look.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:04 AM #4
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You would have to find out if the threads are 9/16-24 and how long the part that goes through the front block is. It looks like it might work, but I don't have any Empire experience.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:50 AM #5
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I don't know either. There's no reason to believe that it would fit since the empire sniper is it's own gun, but that doesn't mean it won't fit. You could try asking paintball gateway and see if they know. They assemble both mini pump cockers and empire snipers (to re-anno) so there's a chance they might know.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:13 PM #6
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Okay, so I found one for cheap and just ordered it. It fits, pic for proof:



Fits just like any other banjo bolt. Mind you I have yet to air it up and test functionality, but I have no reason to believe it won't work.

No I do not plan I using an E2 frame on this lol.
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Old 03-06-2014, 04:09 AM #7
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That's good to know. Keep us informed about how it works!
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:31 PM #8
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Got the custom pump kit designed today. Ordered the easy parts. Waiting for the quote on getting all the milling done. Lets see how it goes.

Maybe I'll snag a screenshot of the CAD design tomorrow if I can.
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:39 PM #9
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So this is the model for the pump handle and the back plate.







I am looking at doing all of the milling myself but is there anyone around here who does this kind of milling that I might be able to discuss having do this?
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Old 03-09-2014, 05:19 PM #10
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I like the idea behind it
One thing you might want to look at is look at either building a custom pump arm to use the original sled or build a new sled so that you can use a straight pump arm
Look at a trilogy pump kit and you will get the idea
The pump arm is bent in such a way to make sure that you don't have the pump arm rubbing making it so that you have a nice smooth pump stroke.
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:43 PM #11
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what did you design that in?
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:15 AM #12
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egopossum:

As for pump arms: I will be making a custom bent one to fit but I am still using the stock mini orracle front block. Here's the idea.

I am going to put a threaded delrin bushing into the old ram mounting thread in the front block and it will have a hole trough the middle that controls the travel of the new pump arm. So as long as I can get the custom bend in the new pump arm to match the existing bend in my existing one it should ride in tat guide and give me a nice linear travel. We will see if this proves out as good as it sounds on paper but at least in theory it should work.

Ryn_Droma:

This was designed in Siemens NX 8.5. I work in this software every day, so throwing this together was easy.

Last edited by deceptiveat70 : 03-10-2014 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:15 PM #13
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Custom pump arm:



You can kind of see the delrin bushing here. I'll try to get some better pics of this after I cut a better bushing. This one was kind of a throw together.

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Old 12-19-2014, 04:18 PM #14
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So this project has evolved a little. I ended up getting a good deal on a full empire sniper pump kit so I made some changes to make it all work.

It's currently a single pump arm, I am thinking of going to a double to gain a little more stability in the pump stroke.

Once I get that all dialed out it will get wet sanded t clean up the milled areas and then sent out for anno. I am thinking of going old school camo splash. Thoughts?

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Old 12-19-2014, 11:37 PM #15
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Thanks for the update. The project is looking good!
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Old 12-23-2014, 01:17 PM #16
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Did the pump guide require longer threads to work with the standard front block or would a standard size guide (like a ccm) work as well?
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:40 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonusball024 View Post
Did the pump guide require longer threads to work with the standard front block or would a standard size guide (like a ccm) work as well?
I don't know exactly how the CCM guides compare to the empire ones. But the empire pump guide worked perfectly with a mini orracle front block.

That's about all the info I can give you based on this project.

Now, that being said, after a little internet research it looks like most of the other kits out there are designed to replace the front block also and it looks like many of the are thinner than a stock front block. So I'm not sure it would work like this.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:33 AM #18
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Thanks for the info, would your pump arm not for through the ram whole on the front block, is that why you had it shaved off?
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:49 AM #19
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When the ram is threaded into the frontblock, the ramshaft ends up being offset from where the hole for the backblock/sled threads. This is usually corrected by the pump arm, which has two bends that connect them together. Since he's using a straight pump arm, I'm presuming it rubbed on the inside of the frontblock where the ram usually goes.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:45 PM #20
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Ah, the pump arm issue....lol. So if you go back through this thread you'll see this project started using a custom pump handle that allowed for a rod with the normal double bend to be used. After deciding to go with the Empire pump kit it became a real PITA to maintain that direction.

The solution became to take off the ram mount and shave the front block down a bit towards the center of the gun. The rod wouldn't work at all without taking the ram mount off due to the offset. I will have to notch the other side of the front block also once I figure exactly how I want to go about setting up my "back block" to run dual pump arms.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:30 PM #21
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So, I got the actual pump arm all set and realized there was a little too much slop in the pump. I decided I would run a guide rod on the right side. Did a little checking and it seemed like I could put a guide hole through the front block. The results turned out better than expected!










Now to tune the springs and reg and then off to anno. I know there used t be a list of anno resources but last I checked most of them were out of business. Is there a go-to guy these days for anno that anyone would recommend?
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