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Old 07-26-2009, 11:40 AM #43
warbeak2099
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MM, would you suggest another way for them to celebrate this moment in their lives? They clearly want to celebrate it, it's important to them. To say they shouldn't is hypocritical as we all celebrate events that are important to us. They are simply doing so in a way that has symbolic meaning to them. I really just think you guys are trying to find something wrong with it so you can "de-legitimize" it in your own mind.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:31 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Leader View Post
Well take music for example. It doesn't really have any value. It's just a collection of sounds and such. Nevertheless people attach value to all forms of music for whatever reason they do. Same applies here I think.
Agreed.
Except the comparison would more of someone not liking music altogether and making up a song about how music is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by warbeak2099 View Post
MM, would you suggest another way for them to celebrate this moment in their lives? They clearly want to celebrate it, it's important to them. To say they shouldn't is hypocritical as we all celebrate events that are important to us. They are simply doing so in a way that has symbolic meaning to them. I really just think you guys are trying to find something wrong with it so you can "de-legitimize" it in your own mind.
WB,

I am not saying they should not.
" " " " it is not legitimate.

Simply, it is odd, the form they have chosen to demonstrate they no longer believe "x" religion. You have to admit, it is kinda odd to have a religious ceremony to show you are not religious.

Maybe if we left aside the religious part of the "odd" (to me) display.
Take gold leader's example. See how odd it sounds when it is fleshed out?
That's all.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:36 PM #45
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You have to admit, it is kinda odd to have a religious ceremony to show you are not religious.
Agreed. But this isn't a religious ceremony. It's the opposite of a religious ceremony.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:55 PM #46
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Agreed. But this isn't a religious ceremony. It's the opposite of a religious ceremony.
Really?

(from the article)
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In a type of mock ceremony that's now been performed in at least four states, a robed "priest" used a hairdryer marked "reason" in an apparent bid to blow away the waters of baptism once and for all. Several dozen participants then fed on a "de-sacrament" (crackers with peanut butter) and received certificates assuring they had "freely renounced a previous mistake, and accepted Reason over Superstition."

For Gray, the lighthearted spirit of last summer's Atheist Coming Out Party and De-Baptism Bash in suburban Westerville, Ohio, served a higher purpose than merely spoofing a Christian rite.
Despite the fact that they try and spoof, you have to admit all the ingredients are there to call this a religious ceremony see the bolded).

And as far as it being a symbolic "shedding" ceremony, it does sound more like they are actively trying to mock. From the article, the words "mock" and "light-hearted" suggest something more than symbolic.

IDK, I mean they have all the right and can even choose to rub jell-o all over their bodies and run naked down the streets in a bid to show they are not crazy, if they want. But, for me, it still sounds odd.

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Old 07-26-2009, 03:39 PM #47
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People are stupid, this mock baptism really doesn't suprise me in the least. They are no better than that which they claim to oppose. I was under the impression that this was serious and not a mock.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:43 PM #48
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That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. (referring to the article mastermind posted)

Anyone who truley uses reason over superstition would be able to realize that there is chance they are wrong and there is a God. I hate stupid people so much.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:46 PM #49
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That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. (referring to the article mastermind posted)

Anyone who truley uses reason over superstition would be able to realize that there is chance they are wrong and there is a God. I hate stupid people so much.
You have a lot to learn buddy.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:12 PM #50
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I felt the need to go through with my apostasy.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:15 PM #51
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you got some kind of decertification or something, right? but you didn't have a "religious" ceremony to flaunt/celebrate it did you?
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:36 PM #52
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you got some kind of decertification or something, right? but you didn't have a "religious" ceremony to flaunt/celebrate it did you?
Exactly, I got a paper signed by a notary telling me I was not tied with the RCC anymore. Oh and I wasn't comparing it with these ceremonies, I was simply sharing
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:39 PM #53
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Exactly, I got a paper signed by a notary telling me I was not tied with the RCC anymore. Oh and I wasn't comparing it with these ceremonies, I was simply sharing
exactly - thank you.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:27 PM #54
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You have a lot to learn buddy.
Yea, ok there crazy guy.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:49 AM #55
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I honestly don't see why anything an athiest does/doesn't do is worthy of any consideration or concern by a Christian.

It seems pretty obvious that this is done to make some sort of an anti-religion statement rather than a pro-athiesm statement. I found the last statement a little ironic...
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:09 AM #56
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It seems pretty obvious that this is done to make some sort of an anti-religion statement rather than a pro-athiesm statement. I found the last statement a little ironic...
That's a rather subtle, (kind) or indirect way to word it, but yeah...

I also think it's very clear that the majority attending these ceremonies -- are simply mocking the concept of religion out of anger and (or) disgust, rather than honestly instigating (or establishing) a difference of opinion. It's not exactly my cup of tea on how someone should properly resolute a lost cause that had been forced upon them at a very young age, but I can honestly empathize (as a fellow human being) on why a select number of folks would be so inclined to act out by expressing these kinds of emotions.

From ones perspective, as a man of the cloth (for example):

It's clearly one way to preach an opinion in which you so strongly believe in, and yet another to dictate amongst a crowd as if declared absolute fact. A lot of times, I believe the two easily get confused, whether the intent on their behalf be purposeful or not.

In either case, for those stuck in between a rock and a hard place have a reason to feel the way they do. It's not always fair to be forced to perceive our existence in a manner chosen by another, especially if that world view proves to be permanent

I don't believe that any specific teaching (or denomination) of Christianity will ever ultimately tarnish a persons life in ways that are unforgiveable, (or deserving of such) but to each their own, and their free right to express whatever means necessary, right?
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:02 PM #57
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I agree with this, but on with the topic.

I hate the term atheism and I hate when people identify themselves as atheists because it's necessarily an ambiguous term when they use it. They justify their atheism differently, with different reasons, with different appeals, with different concentrations. Just as when a person who believes in God(s) and/or demigod(s) identify themselves as theists. It's much more clearer (nice) when they align themselves with a religion. And I enjoy when atheists just call themselves seculars. Because you can be atheist and religious, (No, you can't. You might take part in some religious traditions, ie Christmas or Ha*****h, but you still don't believe in a god but for the most part when someone says atheism they imply a lack or religiosity.
Religion is belief in a supernatural deity or deities based only on faith. Atheists don't believe in supernatural deities by definition, and so for the most part, again by definition, can't align with a religion. Your argument seems to be that you don't have a way of pigeonholing us and that makes you mad. Why?

Quote:
So when we hear atheism, we don't readily know what the person believes and how so. We only know that at his/her conclusion s/he derived that God(s) and/or demigod(s) don't (doesn't) exist.
Atheists don't believe in gods. That is all that ties us together. We do not necessarily (although many atheists do espouse humanism) share a system of values, or anything other than a disbelief in supernatural deities. Happy?

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you got some kind of decertification or something, right? but you didn't have a "religious" ceremony to flaunt/celebrate it did you?
Maybe it is anti-religious. So what? Why do you care? Is it affecting your faith in some way? If so, perhaps your faith needs some re-examination...
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:08 PM #58
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...
Maybe it is anti-religious. So what? Why do you care? Is it affecting your faith in some way? If so, perhaps your faith needs some re-examination...
no skin off my back. the point was and even non-believers in the thread agreed, that they were performing a "religious" ceremony to celebrate there non-religion. just seemed to be an "Interesting" sense of logic.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:11 PM #59
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...even non-believers in the thread agreed, that they were performing a "religious" ceremony.....
We did?
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:17 PM #60
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This reminds me of the "Go God Go" South Park episodes. It doesn't matter what it is, people are going to take it too far (even when, in my opinion, what they are doing is totally antithetical to their beliefs. For some people, atheism is anti-theism, so whatever.) Something will always take the place of religion in a persons life.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:02 AM #61
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no skin off my back. the point was and even non-believers in the thread agreed, that they were performing a "religious" ceremony to celebrate there non-religion. just seemed to be an "Interesting" sense of logic.
It isn't religious. There is no supernatural entity involved. Humans perform all sorts of ceremonies that are not religious - graduations, scouting "moving up" ceremonies, bicycle tourists "dipping the wheels", etc. I'll agree that it is silly, but it's equally silly of you to make such a scene about it. It seems that, compared to the atrocities various religious folk have committed against infidels (be they atheists or simply members of other religions) throughout history, seems like you're making much ado about nothing.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:20 AM #62
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It isn't religious. ...
orly?
Quote:
from the article, that apparently many didn't actually read:
In a type of mock ceremony that's now been performed in at least four states, a robed "priest" used a hairdryer marked "reason" in an apparent bid to blow away the waters of baptism once and for all. Several dozen participants then fed on a "de-sacrament" (crackers with peanut butter) and received certificates assuring they had "freely renounced a previous mistake, and accepted Reason over Superstition."

For Gray, the lighthearted spirit of last summer's Atheist Coming Out Party and De-Baptism Bash in suburban Westerville, Ohio, served a higher purpose than merely spoofing a Christian rite.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:28 AM #63
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Mock Ceremony - Nothing religious about that per my previous posto
Robed "Priest" - Note the quotation marks. Taken in context, this person could have been called an MC and the same effect would have been had.
Blow away the waters of baptism - again, nothing religious about that, there's no supernatural entity involved, its just a ceremony
Fed on oa "de-sacrament" - again, just a ceremony
[Higher purpose than] spoofing a Christian rite - Yeah, the purpose was to demonstrate their renunciation of Christianity.

There is absolutely nothing religious here. You need to learn that not everyone thinks the way you do and that your way is NOT the only way.
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