Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-27-2009, 02:52 PM #22
mugendai
Blame it on the boogie!
 
mugendai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
This is how I see the Trinity (kinda).
Picture a man, to his own father/mother he is a son.
To his son/daughter he is a father.
To his wife he is a husband.
To his nephew/niece he is an uncle.
To his uncle/aunt he is a nephew.
To his student he is a teacher... etc. you all get the point.

Same person, different roles.
And rambo preacher, you may question my other thread (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3165327) with this logic however G-d is G-d, I believe He/She appears in the 3 forms (or at least that's how I would see Him/Her is He/She did).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giruc View Post
ur tiny brian will never comprehend the complexity of the trinity.
I just picture something really funny (note: "ur tiny brian")

Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Then why don't you explain it to me because apparently your brain is big enough to understand it.

The trinity is not complex; it's just completely illogical.
Please direct me to the claim that his brain was any bigger than yours. And one of my mentors once said, "the Trinity is IMPOSSIBLE, but its real." G-d works around mortal logic people... many people haven't understood that yet.
__________________
"Sleep on it, that why God gives you night."
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he never existed."

Last edited by mugendai : 07-27-2009 at 02:57 PM.
mugendai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 07-27-2009, 02:56 PM #23
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
interesting perspective. I like it, but I have just glanced over it
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 02:58 PM #24
TPB_Bubbles
Veritas Vos Liberabit
 
TPB_Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: British Columbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giruc View Post
ur tiny brian will never comprehend the complexity of the trinity.
__________________
"It's better to be aware of one's ignorance than to go on believing dubious and unjustified ideas." - Socrates

"Upstream, small redirectons of flow, downstream everything shifts."
TPB_Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 10:50 PM #25
shaka zulu
OCMI/A5OG OSF
 
shaka zulu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
The trinity is not complex; it's just completely illogical.
It is quite a tough concept to grasp and one that I think we won't truly have a grasp of until we are standing before our Creator. We an edge ever closer by asking "what" instead of "who" when it comes to the trinity though. Even then it's like attempting to fathom the forest, standing beneath the canopy of the trees.
__________________
I shoot fools....then write about it!
Snatch up some of thee hawt DeadBox tees hurr. Translation: "You may purchase, by way of electronic transfer of funds, a Deadbox T-Shirt at this IP Address."
Deadbox FB Fanpage
Leave a message and tell us what you think!
Orange County Mobile Infantry
Proudly Supported by:My Wife | SC Village l Tiberius Arms | Tippmann |

Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
shaka zulu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 08:29 AM #26
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
It is quite a tough concept to grasp and one that I think we won't truly have a grasp of until we are standing before our Creator. We an edge ever closer by asking "what" instead of "who" when it comes to the trinity though. Even then it's like attempting to fathom the forest, standing beneath the canopy of the trees.
I think the reason why no one gets it is because it doesn't exist. There are a few verses that some people several thousand years could not explain what the heck they meant so they formed the doctrine of the trinity to try to explain it. And they sucked. HARD.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 08:52 AM #27
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
...The trinity is not complex; it's just completely illogical.
logic? people are trying to understand the God of Creation within creation? The best we can do is use analogies and representations. I am sorry if that sounds like a cop-out, but I truly believe in that God and His omni's (which in and of themselves are anthropomorphisms as well!!)
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: Christ Krew #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:04 AM #28
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
logic? people are trying to understand the God of Creation within creation? The best we can do is use analogies and representations. I am sorry if that sounds like a cop-out, but I truly believe in that God and His omni's (which in and of themselves are anthropomorphisms as well!!)
Yes, I believe that GOD fulfills all the omni-adjectives, though it seems as though Jesus, does not.

I wouldn't call it a cop-out, but we can do better.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:14 AM #29
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
i don't buy it either. they are not separate entities. it's the LDS (whether one considers them Christian or not is really besides the point) that claims them to be separate, but one in "unity and purpose". The RCC and most other Christianities say that the trinity is one God and are all one. one in substance.
Alright, now I quoted this, to ask you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I want you to tell me how this:



makes any sense at all.
So you don't believe this? If I were to draw a diagram exactly like this but with your personal beliefs in there instead, all those "is not"'s would replaced with "is?"

Because that's what I'm getting from that bolded part above.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:27 AM #30
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
I don't know what that diagram is. I have never seen it before. I don't know it's intent or have had it explained to me theologicaly. I have no other comment on it.

You seem to be caught in semantecs and this physics of logic. the trinity is a mystery, as it is transecendant; as it is God. There are three "persons" in the trinity. you are apparenlty a CARM-guy - have you read these:
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...e/what-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...m-what-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...ctrine/trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...r-look-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...lurality-study
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...onomic-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...itarian-quotes
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...new-testaments

I am no Matt Slick fan, and so don't agree with all his conclusions, but there is some information there that might help you in your studies.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: Christ Krew #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:28 AM #31
Spock
Live Long and Bluster
 
Spock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SE PA
Spock is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I want you to tell me how this:



makes any sense at all.
Here's an analogy:

..................BODY
.............. ./........\
............. /.....is.....\
.......is.../ ...............\...is
......not/.......YOU.......\not
........./...is............is....\
......./...........................\
....SOUL-----is not------MIND
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:32 AM #32
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
I don't know what that diagram is. I have never seen it before. I don't know it's intent or have had it explained to me theologicaly. I have no other comment on it.

You seem to be caught in semantecs and this physics of logic. the trinity is a mystery, as it is transecendant; as it is God. There are three "persons" in the trinity. you are apparenlty a CARM-guy - have you read these:
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...e/what-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...m-what-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...ctrine/trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...r-look-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...lurality-study
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...onomic-trinity
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...itarian-quotes
http://www.carm.org/christianity/chr...new-testaments

I am no Matt Slick fan, and so don't agree with all his conclusions, but there is some information there that might help you in your studies.
I will read these then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
Here's an analogy:

..................BODY
.............. ./........\
............. /.....is.....\
.......is.../ ...............\...is
......not/.......YOU.......\not
........./...is............is....\
......./...........................\
....SOUL-----is not------MIND
This analogy sucks. Those things make up you but they are not all fully you at the same time so it's not the same.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:45 AM #33
Spock
Live Long and Bluster
 
Spock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SE PA
Spock is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I will read these then.

This analogy sucks. Those things make up you but they are not all fully you at the same time so it's not the same.
Sure they are.

Are you saying that when you die and your soul goes wherever it goes, it's "not fully you" or that when you get hit by a paintball and say "I am hit" that your soul or your mind was hit by the paintball, or when you say "I think ... " that your body is thinking?
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 09:57 AM #34
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
analogies all fall short, that's why they are analogies. and I thought it was a good one, especially in also representing the image of God that we were created in, from a trichotomistic point of view.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: Christ Krew #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 10:10 AM #35
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
1.

* The Trinity
o God is three persons
o Each person is divine
o There is only one God.




* Matt. 28:18, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"
* 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."
* 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
* Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift."
* 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."
* Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."



These don't prove anything, except that the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit are three different persons. It certainly doesn't prove they are all "God."

Notice one thing, in all these verses (except one or two), "the Father" isn't referred to as the Father, he's just referred to as God. But he's very rarely referred to as Father in all of the Bible.

=====

2.

This guy "explaining" the other guys supposed fallacies in the second one is an idiot.

* God is three persons
* Each person is divine
* There is only one God.


# God is three persons
# Each person is divine
# There is only one three persons.


The guy calls that a straw-man argument, completely illogical and nonsensical. If God was defined in two of those three absolute statements, which he was, you can logically and sensically replace God with the other part. The statement made doesn't make sense because, quite simply, God is NOT three persons.

Does this person actually think that the word "Bible" occurs in the Bible? It does not. Note that I did not say the Greek word "biblos". I said the English word "Bible." The criticism I initially responded to in my paper was dealing with the objection that the English word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible.

This person has failed to make the distinction and has demonstrated, yet again, a failure to think clearly when addressing the issues.


OF COURSE the English word Bible doesn't appear in the Bible. It was written in GREEK and HEBREW!

Note that this critic mistakenly says "wife and king." Apparently, he didn't read this very carefully -- yet he is ready to criticize it.

You have got to be kidding me. I'm sorry, but this article has got to be one of the ridiculous, low-down attacks and trinitarian propaganda I have ever seen.

Excuse me, but people do make typo's don't they?

Ahahahha, that's rich, considering this guy has been pestering this guy about simple mistakes this whole article instead of actually talking much about the trinity.

(1+1+1+1+1+1+1=7 Oh no! we have over extended our trinity.)

Oh lol. haha

He needs to focus more on logic and scripture, and he needs to not impose upon the text of God's word (or my writing), things that are not there.

Because your writing is infallible and anyone who questions it should be burned!

=====

3. Just so you know, I will read all of those scriptures.

More later
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.

Last edited by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη : 07-28-2009 at 10:13 AM.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 10:42 AM #36
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
4.

No comment

=====

5.

No comment

=====

6.

Each of the three persons in the Godhead are divine, have equal attributes omniscience, omnipresence, holiness, etc.).

O REALLY?

7.

OK, I did not see anything in any of those quotes that remotely defined trinitarianism. Maybe I missed a few things, but I saw nothing.

8.

Yep, I guess because God says "us" a few, times, it means that there are other persons equal to God. Yep, I don't follow the logic there.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2009, 10:46 AM #37
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
Sure they are.

Are you saying that when you die and your soul goes wherever it goes, it's "not fully you" or that when you get hit by a paintball and say "I am hit" that your soul or your mind was hit by the paintball, or when you say "I think ... " that your body is thinking?
You tell me. Is it for nothing that we will get new bodies, because our souls are the whole essence of our being? Of course my body and soul doesn't think and my mind and soul don't feel physical pain. But that doesn't mean they are me in essence. Without mind, body, and soul, I do not exist in whole. The mind, body and soul must exist in unison. It's how humans were made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
analogies all fall short, that's why they are analogies. and I thought it was a good one, especially in also representing the image of God that we were created in, from a trichotomistic point of view.
Even though we don't agree much with theology, you are one funny guy.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump