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Old 07-27-2009, 12:47 PM #22
RamboPreacher
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right, so the historicity of the literation of God is the same one, but the contexts of the texts in reference to theology are too different to be in reference to the same deity. seems pretty easy to distinguish to me.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:02 PM #23
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I very much agree with you on that on RP. Its a good way of looking at it. But when people ask me if Abraham's followers all believe in the same G-d, I say yes.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:05 PM #24
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right, so the historicity of the literation of God is the same one, but the contexts of the texts in reference to theology are too different to be in reference to the same deity. seems pretty easy to distinguish to me.
They are all referencing the same deity, they just disagree as to how that deity has revealed himself to us. Jews believe God stopped with the Tanakh, Christians believe he stopped with the New Testament, Mormons believe he stopped with the BOM, and Muslims believe he stopped with the Koran. All the same figure, just different theories on the message he sent to us through his prophets and how he sent it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:21 PM #25
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
right, so the historicity of the literation of God is the same one, but the contexts of the texts in reference to theology are too different to be in reference to the same deity. seems pretty easy to distinguish to me.
We may be saying the same thing, but the way you articulate it doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps I'm dense.

But this: They must all be referencing the same diety, because they all believe there is only one. The difference is how they characterize this one diety and what they base that characterization on.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:31 PM #26
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A lot of people don't know a lot of things about Islam. Most people in the U.S. think that 99% of Muslims are terrorists.
I surely don't think that, but I didn't even realize that Jews, Christians, and Muslims followed the same God.

Does that mean that the Jews also believe that Jesus was a messenger of God?
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:36 PM #27
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I surely don't think that, but I didn't even realize that Jews, Christians, and Muslims followed the same God.

Does that mean that the Jews also believe that Jesus was a messenger of God?
No, they don't.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:56 PM #28
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Spock,
That's not entirely true. They do not believe he was the messiah but they do not disagree with his message of love. Obviously their are other issues though. The main point is that according to Jews he was not the messiah but his message of love and many of the other things he said/did are respected and seen as true.
You must remember that he was a Jew (to those that are inquisitive)
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:21 PM #29
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Spock,
That's not entirely true. They do not believe he was the messiah but they do not disagree with his message of love. Obviously their are other issues though. The main point is that according to Jews he was not the messiah but his message of love and many of the other things he said/did are respected and seen as true.
You must remember that he was a Jew (to those that are inquisitive)
Message of Love |= Message from God
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:30 PM #30
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Spock,
I don't mean to offend you if you are Jewish however, prominent Jewish leaders both spiritual and none have a bit of a different message.
Baruch Spinoza, the great Jewish philosopher:

“Christ was not so much a prophet as the mouthpiece of God. Christ was sent to teach not only Jews, but the whole human race; and therefore it was not enough that his mind should be
accommodated to the opinions of the Jews alone, but also to the opinion and fundamental teaching common to the whole human race; in other words, to ideas universal and truth.”
abbi Gross of Brooklyn’s Union Temple:

“I, a rabbi of Israel, think we should accept Jesus. I think we should teach Jesus to children much as we teach them about Abraham, Moses and Jeremiah, and the rest of the great teachers and prophets. Jesus, as we all know, was a Jew. He was a gift of love.”

Rabbi Rudolph Grossman, D.D.:

“We Jews honor the Nazarene as our brother in faith, sprung from our loins, nurtured at Israel’s knee, a teacher of sweet and beautiful ideals, a preacher whose influence has been and still is among the mightiest spiritualizing factors in the world.”

Rabbi Gustav Gottheil, Ph.D., one of the founders of the Federation of American Zionists:

“The keynote of prophetic religion of the Jewish prophets was holiness of life and purity of heart…. To place the Master of Nazareth by their side can surely be no dishonor to him, nor can it dim the luster of his name. If he has added to their spiritual bequests new jewels of religious truth, and spoken words which are words of life, because they touch the deepest springs of the human heart, why should we Jews not glorify in him?”

Sorry for the quotes but as you can see they don't disagree with his message and that it could be from God. The message of him being the messiah of the Jews (entirely different interpretation then what Christians and subsequently most think he is). They don't see him as fulfilling the prophecies and they deny his resurrection. They don't deny that his message of love could come from God.
Message from God =/=Message of God for the Jews
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:11 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyGfunk View Post
Spock,
That's not entirely true. They do not believe he was the messiah but they do not disagree with his message of love. Obviously their are other issues though. The main point is that according to Jews he was not the messiah but his message of love and many of the other things he said/did are respected and seen as true.
You must remember that he was a Jew (to those that are inquisitive)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyGfunk View Post
Spock,
I don't mean to offend you if you are Jewish however, prominent Jewish leaders both spiritual and none have a bit of a different message.
Baruch Spinoza, the great Jewish philosopher:

“Christ was not so much a prophet as the mouthpiece of God. Christ was sent to teach not only Jews, but the whole human race; and therefore it was not enough that his mind should be
accommodated to the opinions of the Jews alone, but also to the opinion and fundamental teaching common to the whole human race; in other words, to ideas universal and truth.”
abbi Gross of Brooklyn’s Union Temple:


“I, a rabbi of Israel, think we should accept Jesus. I think we should teach Jesus to children much as we teach them about Abraham, Moses and Jeremiah, and the rest of the great teachers and prophets. Jesus, as we all know, was a Jew. He was a gift of love.”

Rabbi Rudolph Grossman, D.D.:

“We Jews honor the Nazarene as our brother in faith, sprung from our loins, nurtured at Israel’s knee, a teacher of sweet and beautiful ideals, a preacher whose influence has been and still is among the mightiest spiritualizing factors in the world.”

Rabbi Gustav Gottheil, Ph.D., one of the founders of the Federation of American Zionists:

“The keynote of prophetic religion of the Jewish prophets was holiness of life and purity of heart…. To place the Master of Nazareth by their side can surely be no dishonor to him, nor can it dim the luster of his name. If he has added to their spiritual bequests new jewels of religious truth, and spoken words which are words of life, because they touch the deepest springs of the human heart, why should we Jews not glorify in him?”

Sorry for the quotes but as you can see they don't disagree with his message and that it could be from God. The message of him being the messiah of the Jews (entirely different interpretation then what Christians and subsequently most think he is). They don't see him as fulfilling the prophecies and they deny his resurrection. They don't deny that his message of love could come from God.
Message from God =/=Message of God for the Jews


But there are also Jewish people who even refuse to use His name. Because He claims He is G-d
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:52 PM #32
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Originally Posted by DyePaintballer2k11 View Post
I surely don't think that, but I didn't even realize that Jews, Christians, and Muslims followed the same God.

Does that mean that the Jews also believe that Jesus was a messenger of God?


Yes, but they all have different views of heaven, or concepts. *shrug*


The ignorance...... I want my own country. Of people I educate. *stomps feet*
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:51 AM #33
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I am well aware of the issues Jews have with Jesus and the resulting things he is called.
The difference is the way. The messages are different but have essential qualities that are very similar.
Overall, it is all rather silly how angry and upset the three religions become at each other when they all claim to be started by the same group of people until they split.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:12 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyGfunk View Post
Spock,
I don't mean to offend you if you are Jewish however, prominent Jewish leaders both spiritual and none have a bit of a different message.
Baruch Spinoza, the great Jewish philosopher:

“Christ was not so much a prophet as the mouthpiece of God. Christ was sent to teach not only Jews, but the whole human race; and therefore it was not enough that his mind should be
accommodated to the opinions of the Jews alone, but also to the opinion and fundamental teaching common to the whole human race; in other words, to ideas universal and truth.”
abbi Gross of Brooklyn’s Union Temple:

“I, a rabbi of Israel, think we should accept Jesus. I think we should teach Jesus to children much as we teach them about Abraham, Moses and Jeremiah, and the rest of the great teachers and prophets. Jesus, as we all know, was a Jew. He was a gift of love.”

Rabbi Rudolph Grossman, D.D.:

“We Jews honor the Nazarene as our brother in faith, sprung from our loins, nurtured at Israel’s knee, a teacher of sweet and beautiful ideals, a preacher whose influence has been and still is among the mightiest spiritualizing factors in the world.”

Rabbi Gustav Gottheil, Ph.D., one of the founders of the Federation of American Zionists:

“The keynote of prophetic religion of the Jewish prophets was holiness of life and purity of heart…. To place the Master of Nazareth by their side can surely be no dishonor to him, nor can it dim the luster of his name. If he has added to their spiritual bequests new jewels of religious truth, and spoken words which are words of life, because they touch the deepest springs of the human heart, why should we Jews not glorify in him?”

Sorry for the quotes but as you can see they don't disagree with his message and that it could be from God. The message of him being the messiah of the Jews (entirely different interpretation then what Christians and subsequently most think he is). They don't see him as fulfilling the prophecies and they deny his resurrection. They don't deny that his message of love could come from God.
Message from God =/=Message of God for the Jews
Only one of those quotes even remotely hints that Jesus could be the "messenger of God" ("mouthpiece of God") and it is the opinion of one person, not Jews in general.
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