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Old 07-20-2009, 09:44 PM #1
mugendai
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Question about the Islamic faith.

Is Jesus considered the Messiah?
Because I didn't think so but my friend (who is Muslim) said that Jesus is considered Messiah. Can this be confirmed/denied, and clarified. Please and thank you!

And also, what exactly is the literal meaning of Messiah?
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:06 PM #2
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He is considered a prophet (one who delivers a message from God), and a Messiah, but in a different sense from Christianity.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:50 AM #3
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He is not considered THE messiah. He is simply one prophet out of the rest, although he is a very respected prophet. Muhammad is considered THE final "seal" of the prophets.
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:38 PM #4
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I thought Jesus was talking about a whole different "God" than the Islamic religion believes.

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Old 07-21-2009, 03:46 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugendai View Post
Is Jesus considered the Messiah?
Because I didn't think so but my friend (who is Muslim) said that Jesus is considered Messiah. Can this be confirmed/denied, and clarified. Please and thank you!

And also, what exactly is the literal meaning of Messiah?
Yes, the Qur'an refers to him specifically as the Messiah

When the angels said, 'O Mary, God gives thee glad tidings of a son through a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God [3:46]

And for their saying, 'We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God;' whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it. [4:158]

O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of God anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'They are three.' Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, God is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian. [4:172]
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:02 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid_Admins View Post
I thought Jesus was talking about a whole different "God" than the Islamic religion believes.

I hope you aren't apart of one of the three religions of Abraham. Jew, Christian and Muslim all follow the same god, the God of Abraham.
Edit:
Let me rephrase, I hope that you don't follow without reason(thinking) or understanding of history.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:11 PM #7
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Supersupra's post highlights the difference. A facsimile of God =/= the same God. I doubt Muslim and Christian will ever reconcile this prime difference without compromising the teachings of their faith.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:31 PM #8
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Supersupra's post highlights the difference. A facsimile of God =/= the same God. I doubt Muslim and Christian will ever reconcile this prime difference without compromising the teachings of their faith.
What is a facsimile of God?

Muslims believe that their God is the same God that spoke to humanity through Moses, Noah, and Jesus. They just believe that the message was distorted (by people), and that God set it straight by speaking one last time through Mohammad.

Of course, no one has ever satisfactorily explained why such an omnipotent being doesn't speak to us individually instead of expecting us to trust the (very old) word of other wicked, lying sinners.

Last edited by Spock : 07-22-2009 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:41 PM #9
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What is a facsimile of God?

Muslims believe that their God is the same God that spoke to humanity through Moses, Noah, and Jesus. They just believe that the message was distorted (by people), and that God set it straight by speaking one last time through Mohammad.

Of course, no one has ever satisfactorily explained why such an omnipotent being doesn't speak to us individually instead of expecting us to trust the (very old) word of other wicked, lying sinners.
1) Deny the Son, deny the Father. If god is not the Father of Christ then he is not the same God.

2) yep

3) Who said He doesn't? The unbelieving pessimists?
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:17 PM #10
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1) Deny the Son, deny the Father. If god is not the Father of Christ then he is not the same God.

Perhaps, but that phrase does not necessarily make it a different God, and of course, we're talking about what Muslims believe, not what Christians say.


2) yep

3) Who said He doesn't? The unbelieving pessimists?
Perhaps I deaf and blind, but then again, God knows that and is capable of speaking to me in a language I can "understand". I wouldn't be an "unbelieving pessimist" if God gave me a concrete reason to believe.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:24 PM #11
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the fact that you value empirical evidence over other kinds doesn't make it any more or less "concrete", does it?
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:30 PM #12
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the fact that you value empirical evidence over other kinds doesn't make it any more or less "concrete", does it?
What other kind of evidence should I be looking for?
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:37 PM #13
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Not to derail you/hsilman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
...... God knows that and is capable of speaking to me in a language I can "understand". I wouldn't be an "unbelieving pessimist" if God gave me a concrete reason to believe.
Just wanted to respond - Right.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:03 PM #14
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What other kind of evidence should I be looking for?
I dunno, compelling reason to believe due to logic as well as personal experience that gives you sufficient justification for you to accept a worldview that necessitates a God, perhaps a specific God? I agree that lacking a personal experience faith is irresponsible and foolish(I think I've mentioned that before), but supposedly God is open to giving you that experience. The real question is, are you truly open to experiencing it? Does your worldview even allow for the divine?

I think an interesting question is whether we are hardwired biologically to value empirical methods over non-communicable ones or if it is a product of culture/society.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:02 PM #15
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I dunno, compelling reason to believe due to logic as well as personal experience that gives you sufficient justification for you to accept a worldview that necessitates a God, perhaps a specific God? I agree that lacking a personal experience faith is irresponsible and foolish(I think I've mentioned that before), but supposedly God is open to giving you that experience. The real question is, are you truly open to experiencing it? Does your worldview even allow for the divine?

I think an interesting question is whether we are hardwired biologically to value empirical methods over non-communicable ones or if it is a product of culture/society.
I have seen many logical arguments for the existence of God and they were all (1) not compelling, (2) too complex or abstract for my small brain to comprehend, or (3) all the above.

I also have yet to have personal experience that indicates to me that a God is likely to exist. If anything, my personal experience goes the other way. I don't know what it means to be "open" to experiencing anything. I either experience things or I don't. I don't really get to choose what happens to me.

I have a feeling that we believe what we believe primarily based on how we are indoctrinated as children. There are obvious exceptions, but I'm sure there are logical ways to account for those on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:57 PM #16
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1) Deny the Son, deny the Father. If god is not the Father of Christ then he is not the same God.
There are many ways to look at that situation, it really depends how you interpret that.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:22 PM #17
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I had no idea that Islam even accepted Jesus, let alone believe he was the Messiah
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:24 PM #18
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I had no idea that Islam even accepted Jesus, let alone believe he was the Messiah

A lot of people don't know a lot of things about Islam. Most people in the U.S. think that 99% of Muslims are terrorists.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:05 AM #19
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I know a lot of people who think Hinduism and Islam are closer related then Islam and Christianity.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:08 AM #20
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weird.

the easiest way to look at it in my opinion is that historically-speaking, the references are of the same deity, theologically speaking the three major Abrahamic traditions are not in reference to the same God.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:56 AM #21
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weird.

the easiest way to look at it in my opinion is that historically-speaking, the references are of the same deity, theologically speaking the three major Abrahamic traditions are not in reference to the same God.
It's hard to understand what you mean by "not the same God" or "historically speaking". Whether it is the "same God" is really not the right question, because all of the Abrahamic religions believe there is only one God. There is no "other God" that Muslims could believe in. The question is what do people believe this one God is, and who do they believe he has communicated to us through.

According to Muslims, the God they worship is the same God who spoke to Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, etc. Muslims just believe that the Bible mischaracterizes the message of these prophets and does not accurately describe God (because it was written by men and not a word-for-word transcript of the word of God), so that God decided to do a "do-over" by dictating the message word-for-word to Mohammad.

Most Jews and Christians, on the other hand, probably believe that Mohammad was just BSing, made it all up, delusional, or all of the above. They do not believe that God spoke to Mohammad or that the Quran accurately describes God.
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