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Old 12-02-2014, 09:07 PM #1
Deadlock2k1
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The gaT inconsistency, chopping.

So I took my gat out of storage and before even firing it I broke down the lpr, minireg, valve assembly, ram, basically everything except the solenoid (did pull it and lube the gasket tho just in case). Put it all back together and gave it some gas and it got through about 2 pods before chopping. One thing I noticed was it seemed like the bolt was slamming into the paint, the velocity was good +-7 but the flight was so turbulent and the breaks were happening when the bolt first made contact with the ball. As I fired more the breaks got worse.

I upped the dwell, the breaks kept happening and at 14ms I was sounding like a cannon. I mean holy hell loud! The chrono was still on after adjusting for dwell but you could just tell the paint was taking a lot of abuse, and breaks were very explosive, paint shooting out the eye covers kind of stuff.

OK from here I started to tinker, I think I should say now that I am shooting this thing internally stock except for a m7 tadao, 450psi input at the tank, unknown from the reg (stock spring stack though) 63 psi at the lpr. dwell of 12, semi capped at 16 with buffering and snubbing settings near max because this thing is kicking that hard.

The tinkering started with raising the dwell to try and reduce the breaks. This did not help. went from 12-14 and now when i broke the paint would go everywhere. I even had a few breaks from turbulent balls about 20 feet out of the barrel at 290fps.

Then I decided I would reduce the lpr pressure to 58. This did not help either. Still a cannon and still chopping. And now I am having lpr recharge problems. I noticed that the lpr is charging the last 5 psi veeeery slowly. Whats the deal with this? Is this the minireg bleeding into the lpr?

Im kind of lost at this point. I have broken this thing down so many times and am kind of miffed here. I shot a multitude of barrels and inserts with this and had an ego with no eyes shooting the same paint uncapped with no breaks so I really cant see it being the paint or loader... Please help... girlfriend wants the kitchen table back by christmas. /rant
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:09 PM #2
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Oh and when i dropped the lpr the gun became crazy inconsistent, despite raising the dwell up to 18 and back down to 12 just to check the difference.In the process now of increasing lpr back to recommended 65 psi but I just dont see that reducing my cannonlike issue..
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:03 PM #3
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When I hear inconsistency I always think a thorough cleaning and fresh grease. Check the stupid things like the HPR cartridge, LPR spring stack and the o-rings.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:02 AM #4
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Added a shim to the hpr stack and it seems to have done the trick )()()((. lpr seems much more consistent, never saw it go back to the same psi so reliably (hitting 59 every time) chrono'd in at 280 with the hpr adjustment nearly all the way down but dwell was at 14 still and 3 shims left in the lpr, i assume a lower dwell will drop it even further. Is this safe to do? Dont want to blow out my lpr... I can only imagine I upped my hpr a considerable amount, but what is the dangerous threshold?

edited for hpr stack, sorry gchette.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:19 AM #5
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Technically according to the 06 speed manual the springs are supposed to be ()(|||. Springs signified by the ( or ) and shims are |. I'm not sure if your setup is bad per say. If it works its probably ok, but I'm sure Pat or Brad will weigh in.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:31 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gchette View Post
Technically according to the 06 speed manual the springs are supposed to be ()(|||. Springs signified by the ( or ) and shims are |. I'm not sure if your setup is bad per say. If it works its probably ok, but I'm sure Pat or Brad will weigh in.
only 3 shims and 3 springs? thats my exact configuration right now and my lpr is below the factory setting of 65 AFTER I increased my hpr output. Well I dont want to tap the stock body so its time to get a hyper 3 so i can read the output I guess. Something isnt adding up.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:35 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlock2k1 View Post
only 3 shims and 3 springs? thats my exact configuration right now and my lpr is below the factory setting of 65 AFTER I increased my hpr output. Well I dont want to tap the stock body so its time to get a hyper 3 so i can read the output I guess. Something isnt adding up.
nah you add shims until you reach about 65, but if you are consistent and happy with how it shoots I'd probably count it as a win. Each gun requires a different number of shims to get in the pressure range. If you don't have shootdown its probably good. I have an extra set of gauges I'd be willing to part with if you want.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:43 AM #8
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Originally Posted by gchette View Post
nah you add shims until you reach about 65, but if you are consistent and happy with how it shoots I'd probably count it as a win. Each gun requires a different number of shims to get in the pressure range. If you don't have shootdown its probably good. I have an extra set of gauges I'd be willing to part with if you want.
What kind of gauges? like for retrofitting onto the reg body or for testing aftermarket regs? I was kinda set on just getting a reg adapter and getting something new.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:23 AM #9
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I know you said you didn't know your HPR pressure when you started, but do you remember where your adjustment screw was, roughly? The LPR is fed by the HPR, and so a change in HPR pressure will have a corresponding effect on LPR, and if they get too far out of balance performance suffers. It might be a good idea to start over from scratch with your pressure balance. You don't necessarily need a valve gauge for this, but you will need the LPR gauge. Try this:

Revert your HPR spring stack to stock. It should look like this:

) ( ) ( ) (

Lube and re-assemble. Screw your HPR adjustment screw all the way in. Now back it all the way out, counting the number of turns it takes. Halve the number of turns and screw the adjustment screw back in that many turns. That should put your HPR into the proper operating range. Now set your LPR. I'd recommend setting it to 65 psi. Don't set it below 60 psi. Your dwell should be in the 10-12 ms range. Go to the chrono, see where you stand. You should be within range of normal FPS - you might need to adjust the HPR up or down slightly as you normally would for velocity adjustment. If you're way off or you're still getting bad chops, something else may be wrong.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:45 PM #10
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Just to be clear my spring/shim "diagram" was for the LPR stack.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:59 AM #11
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Reset everything except board. LPR WAS AT 59, I added shims to 63-65 range. Chrono'd at 290 +/- 10. broke 2 balls in 2 pods while shooting very slowly. I dry-fired at semi 16 cap and I noticed what sounded like the exhaust valve not sealing properly. Some shots seems to have triple the dwell and the cycle was noticeably inconsistent. I'm about to give in and send this in for professional service =/
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:07 AM #12
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Just to be sure, you put your HPR spring stack back to stock and set the adjustment screw to halfway before setting the LPR to 63-65 psi and chronoing in the 290 range, correct? If so, the problem probably isn't your pressures. That's right where everything should be.

What sort of noise is it making that makes you suspect the valve isn't sealing? If the valve seems to be hanging open, you might want to try checking if the ram is sticking. To do so, pen up the rotobreech, remove the bolt, hold the rotobreech securely, and fire while looking down into the bolt pin slot and see if the ram is sticking forward or not retracting properly.

Also, it seems obvious, but have you felt around the breech, feedneck, and rotobreech with a finger to see if there are any rough edges or protrusions that could be causing paint to break?
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:15 AM #13
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sounds like either your noid or ram is sticking, you didnt crank down on the noid cap screw did you? while more common in the a1 series, people used to do that and it would dent the noid and cause the shaft to stick open/closed
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:16 AM #14
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Quote:
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hold the rotobreech securely
just wanted to emphasis this part.. dont tear your breech by leaving it flopping around while firing.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:06 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Just to be sure, you put your HPR spring stack back to stock and set the adjustment screw to halfway before setting the LPR to 63-65 psi and chronoing in the 290 range, correct? If so, the problem probably isn't your pressures. That's right where everything should be.

What sort of noise is it making that makes you suspect the valve isn't sealing? If the valve seems to be hanging open, you might want to try checking if the ram is sticking. To do so, pen up the rotobreech, remove the bolt, hold the rotobreech securely, and fire while looking down into the bolt pin slot and see if the ram is sticking forward or not retracting properly.

Also, it seems obvious, but have you felt around the breech, feedneck, and rotobreech with a finger to see if there are any rough edges or protrusions that could be causing paint to break?
Yes to the first paragraph.

It sounds like that first instant when you get bolt stick and you get that bellowing sound before the constant rush of air.

Breach has been inspected by me and a friend just to make sure im not insane. Im going to play with the detents tonight to see if they might be causing an issue and be the cause of the barrel breaks. The exhaust valve issue is a seperate problem I think.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:09 PM #16
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sounds like either your noid or ram is sticking, you didnt crank down on the noid cap screw did you? while more common in the a1 series, people used to do that and it would dent the noid and cause the shaft to stick open/closed
Didnt crank it down but will be removing and inspecting that and the ram tonight. I hope it's not the ram as I have been dreading spending the cash on it or trying the rebuildable ram mod.
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