Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2009, 12:07 PM #64
cuttlefish32
 
 
cuttlefish32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Well, that is the unanswerable question. Why did God create anything? He knows exactly everything that would happen since the beginning of earth. Even more, he knew since the "beginning" of eternity that he would create us, so why did he wait until he did if everything would happen the same? I find these questions to be pointless, for they are unanswerable and everyone knows that they are unanswerable, but still they ask. Life is a labyrinth each must go through individually, so they can find their own answers, and own purpose.
What is bolded I don't seem to understand. While somewhat disproven, God created light on the first day of eternity. So there wasn't a waiting period.
If people had to go through the labyrinth alone, what would the point of priests or loving one's neighbor accomplish? Besides, sometimes other people can show you things about yourself even you didn't know (sorry, bad grammer)
__________________
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right.
-Henry Ford
cuttlefish32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 07-07-2009, 12:42 PM #65
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttlefish32 View Post
What is bolded I don't seem to understand. While somewhat disproven, God created light on the first day of eternity. So there wasn't a waiting period.
If people had to go through the labyrinth alone, what would the point of priests or loving one's neighbor accomplish? Besides, sometimes other people can show you things about yourself even you didn't know (sorry, bad grammer)
Yes, I see what you mean in the first part.

In your journey, other people's views that can shape your way of thinking of any particular subject can lead you down a different road than you were going, but ultimately, you still must find your own answers to your own questions. In many ways, each person in alone in the world, left to find their own answers that no one else can find for them.

You have heard people say that religion just doesn't "work" for them. What is their answer? I do not know, and I don't think you do either, for both our roots and our answers are firmly planted in religion and dogma; that there are unanswerable questions, but that's OK because God has a plan and will for us all. I don't know how anyone else justifies life or explains life's unanswerable questions, because they rely on rationalization to explain these things without any supernatural being, but still it is impossible to do so. You can't explain anything apart from a supernatural being, so their lives are obviously pointless and anything they accomplish in life, all the questions they answer, also pointless.

Anything that has ever been discovered since the beginning of creation is all pointless if there is no purpose for anything. Therefore, these people move forward in life, wondering half-heartedly what the answers to life's unanswerable questions are, and they never in their whole lives find any answers.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 03:03 PM #66
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
You spend too much time only on the phrase (sentence) you quoted, instead of looking at the one right before it. If these "trials" or "tests" are to teach us about ourselves and the animalistic nature of man, then these tests would really not be related to God trying to figure something out about us at all. Making this point invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttlefish32 View Post
Any why not? Think about this anagoly of a regular school where God is the teacher and gives out the tests. God knows the answers and he knows who hasn't studied, yet he still passes out the test. God doesn't want to purposely fail people and yet, some people will fail. But ultimatly, by getting their result, people will learn that they should study more or continue studying. I'm not sure if there is a second outcome, but I doubt it's as important as the idea of growth in one's faith.
I understand that. But, trials are there to test our faith, and subsequently get into Heaven by proving ourselves worthy in the end. If God knows the outcome, and that outcome is inevitable to begin with, then what's the point in trying to salvage that individual at all, perhaps even make this person suffer even more? If there's hope for that person, it's meaningful to hold "trials" -- otherwise for that person there would be no purpose; hence my original post...
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 03:30 PM #67
markcheb
surrender...don't move
 
markcheb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: across the Jordan river
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron5604 View Post
I understand that. But, trials are there to test our faith, and subsequently get into Heaven by proving ourselves worthy in the end. If God knows the outcome, and that outcome is inevitable to begin with, then what's the point in trying to salvage that individual at all, perhaps even make this person suffer even more? If there's hope for that person, it's meaningful to hold "trials" -- otherwise for that person there would be no purpose; hence my original post...
(bold) Say what? What is it that we can do that proves ourselves worthy again?

Maybe I missed it in your earlier post.
__________________
Which thief ~~ are you?
ChristKrew #185
Anointing foreheads with the paintball for a while now.
Where's God? - Read Luke 15:11-32
markcheb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 10:23 PM #68
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcheb View Post
(bold) Say what? What is it that we can do that proves ourselves worthy again?

Maybe I missed it in your earlier post.
Well, so to speak, it's gotta be a two way street here...

If through the eyes of God, our life is already in fact determined (from an engineering's aspect) -- "trials" would really only benefit those who're created to receive the reward (or right) into Heaven. If He "knows" the outcome for those unworthy -- then how does a "trial" exist in serving as a positive stepping stone towards those less fortunate? I mean, for these poor souls here, a trial would do nothing for them in the end, since they're already reserved to be in Hell anyways; so, why initiate a series of tests on them to begin with?

Systematically speaking, it just doesn't honestly seem to fit...
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.

Last edited by Aaron5604 : 07-08-2009 at 03:16 AM.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 10:33 PM #69
cuttlefish32
 
 
cuttlefish32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron5604 View Post
Well, so to speak, it's gotta be a two way street here...

If through the eyes of God, our life is already in fact determined (from an engineering's aspect) -- "trials" would really only benefit those who're created to receive the reward (or right) into Heaven. If He "knows" the outcome for those unworthy -- then how does a "trial" exist in serving as a positive stepping stone towards those less fortunate? I mean, for these poor souls here, a trial would do nothing for them in the end, since they're already reserved to be in Hell anyways; so, why initiate a series of tests to them to begin with?

Systematically speaking, it just doesn't honestly seem to fit...
That question can be answered if you consider the magnitude of such a trial. In my opinon, very, very few people go to hell because if they can repent before death, they're golden. I think that most if not all of the people who are tried, whether the outcome is good or bad, will repent for their sins.
__________________
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right.
-Henry Ford
cuttlefish32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 10:34 PM #70
sixty nine v.2
doin' flips n' ****
 
sixty nine v.2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
God is like that really shady friend of yours... you cant trust him with even a 5 doller bill, they might spend it on a 5$ footlong. ****s ****ed up.
sixty nine v.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 10:37 PM #71
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttlefish32 View Post
That question can be answered if you consider the magnitude of such a trial.
How's the magnitude of any given trial, really relevant in life after having already been determined through the making of God?
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 10:58 PM #72
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I think we have skipped over something INCREDIBLY big.

Let's look at examples of people that are evil:

1. They are born ****ed up and know no better (psychopaths, etc.)
2. They are forced into a situation where they have no choice but to commit a crime
3. Or three, given their experience, they feel they are justified in what they are doing

My point is, people that are evil are not really choosing to be evil.

i can not write tonight
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 11:04 PM #73
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
I think we have skipped over something INCREDIBLY big.

Let's look at examples of people that are evil:

1. They are born ****ed up and know no better (psychopaths, etc.)
2. They are forced into a situation where they have no choice but to commit a crime
3. Or three, given their experience, they feel they are justified in what they are doing

My point is, people that are evil are not really choosing to be evil.

i can not write tonight
Someone has mentioned that, though I do not recall whether it was in this thread or another.

But, maybe you're right. I can't think of any case where the opposite would be true.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 11:08 PM #74
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Someone has mentioned that, though I do not recall whether it was in this thread or another.

But, maybe you're right. I can't think of any case where the opposite would be true.
Yeah, I have talked about this before in a different light. What I said was, and I am willing to find/retype if anyone is interested, is that reason itself is composed of uncontrollable experience and that the choice of choosing to be or choosing not to be religious is not the choice of the decider.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 11:55 PM #75
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
Yeah, I have talked about this before in a different light. What I said was, and I am willing to find/retype if anyone is interested, is that reason itself is composed of uncontrollable experience and that the choice of choosing to be or choosing not to be religious is not the choice of the decider.
So, you basically believe in a form of predestinationism?
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 12:07 AM #76
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
So, you basically believe in a form of predestinationism?
Lol. I will assume the "tongue face" means I do not have to form a retort.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 12:08 AM #77
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη
 
 
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
Lol. I will assume the "tongue face" means I do not have to form a retort.
Yes, that post was meant as a joke.
__________________
Beauty and Harmony through Entropy.
ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 12:14 AM #78
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Yes, that post was meant as a joke.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 08:48 AM #79
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
I think we have skipped over something INCREDIBLY big.

Let's look at examples of people that are evil:

1. They are born ****ed up and know no better (psychopaths, etc.)
2. They are forced into a situation where they have no choice but to commit a crime
3. Or three, given their experience, they feel they are justified in what they are doing

My point is, people that are evil are not really choosing to be evil.

i can not write tonight

at least 2 of those 3 are false dichotomies. You choose.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 09:15 AM #80
cuttlefish32
 
 
cuttlefish32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron5604 View Post
How's the magnitude of any given trial, really relevant in life after having already been determined through the making of God?
I'm saying that a trial from God has such a magnitude that most people who recieve these trials will either find a life in (any) God or repent before their death.
__________________
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right.
-Henry Ford
cuttlefish32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 10:28 AM #81
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttlefish32 View Post
I'm saying that a trial from God has such a magnitude that most people who recieve these trials will either find a life in (any) God or repent before their death.
And, from those who don't fall into this, "most" category were then put on trial for what purpose; to what, suffer by default; is that honestly a fair opposition to put someone in?

Again...

"Trials" are only reasonable for those admitted into Heaven; an outcome that God has already planned from the time that He has created you and the environment that you'll cease to exist in. As in the book of James, it's scripted to be all subsequential, like a working puzzle in progress. The problem, is that it doesn't perceive to be on equal terms going both ways; therefore, incomplete...
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.

Last edited by Aaron5604 : 07-08-2009 at 10:32 AM.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 12:37 PM #82
cuttlefish32
 
 
cuttlefish32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron5604 View Post
And, from those who don't fall into this, "most" category were then put on trial for what purpose; to what, suffer by default; is that honestly a fair opposition to put someone in?
It's possible that such a trial could be a punishment for those destined to go to hell.
__________________
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right.
-Henry Ford
cuttlefish32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 12:42 PM #83
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
at least 2 of those 3 are false dichotomies. You choose.
go ahead
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 02:45 PM #84
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttlefish32 View Post
It's possible that such a trial could be a punishment for those destined to go to hell.
Alright, but ask yourself this:

Would you then proceed to call that an actual "trial" as stated, or just plain and pointless cruelty?
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump