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Old 06-21-2009, 11:11 PM #1
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I wanna know

Why everyone laughs at someone who believes that every year a jolly fat man flies around the entire world with a list of all the naughty and nice children and divies out gifts according to their wishes.
and when someone says that the universe was created in 6 days (minus one for rest because eventhough God is all powerful, he gets tired after a few days.) That man was created from mud and woman was created from mans rib and they lived walking around a giant garden with a talking snake, then the chick ate an apple (symbolizing knowledge i think?) and then God said GTFO and now we're all cousins .
they take them seriously.
or that an elderly drunk built a huge boat that contained 2 of every animal in the entire world because God unleashed a flood. (anyone who knows anything about Genetics knows theres something wrong with only 2)

as an aside.... what happened to all the sea creatures who would die in fresh water? im assuming that the rain was fresh. or amphibians. or animals like sea lions who need both land and ocean to survive.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:25 PM #2
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I'm just going to throw this out there. Not all believers in God are believers in Genesis. I happen to think that a large part of those stories if not all are biblical fabrications, but I still believe in God.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:32 PM #3
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Why everyone laughs at someone who believes that every year a jolly fat man flies around the entire world with a list of all the naughty and nice children and divies out gifts according to their wishes.
Well...

Last time I checked, Santa Clause has been proven not to exist. So, There's your "why" response.

I guess you could say, that God is in the works; be Patient
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:41 PM #4
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Yes I realize that not all Christians are fundamentalists, that a few people are smart enough to question the doctrine, but at what point does the questioning begin and when does it end? The main reason for belief in God, where it comes from, is the Bible. But what makes Genesis less legitimate than say... Mark, or Luke? What makes the story of Samson killing five thousand men with a jawbone any different than the basic story of Jesus? If the Bible is God's word than it wouldn't all of it have to be true. and if it wasn't then why would anyone care? the main reasoning behind this, atleast from what i have heard, is that people back then obviously didn't have much of a sense of physics, astronomy or biology so strange happenings were often embellished as works of God, and that the writers of the Bible could've put their own spin on things, but if one part of the Bible is false or embellished, then what makes the other stories true?
basically, if the Great Flood was just a story told by a few vivid imaginations then why would the stories of God talking to people be any different? people talk to God now, and we dismiss most of them as being crazy. what about back then? what makes the disciples of Christ less crazy than the smelly bum on the street corner? they both talked to God.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:44 PM #5
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Well...

Last time I checked, Santa Clause has been proven not to exist. So, There's your "why" response.

I guess you could say, that God is in the works; be Patient
I challenge anyone to find a research study with evidence that disproves santa.
I guarantee that no one has ever gone to the north pole and thoroughly searched for Santa claus. And I mean not just looking around. He could be hiding under the ice. or he could even live in a different dimension of space and time. think about it?
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:04 AM #6
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I challenge anyone to find a research study with evidence that disproves santa.
I think staying up all night on Christmas Eve would qualify as proof. I mean, either way, the guy has to stop by and put coals or gifts in your stocking; plus, eat your cookies!
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:10 AM #7
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Well...

Last time I checked, Santa Clause has been proven not to exist. So, There's your "why" response.

I guess you could say, that God is in the works; be Patient
man has been patient for 6,000yrs, how much longer before he shows himself huh? Not in my lifetime im sure but if there was a god Im sure he wouldnt claim any of the popular religions in the world today as his one true religion because they all depict him as a kind loving god that sends ppl to hell with no 2nd chances, makes no sense to me. If he does exist he must have forgotton about us since he created us.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:14 AM #8
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well then by that reasoning, I have never seen God, talked to him or felt his presence. So, does this mean that he doesn't exist too? and theres always presents in my stocking, one year there was coal. I've never stayed up all night because maybe i like the thought of believing in santa. So to me, there has not been substantial proof that santa does not exist because i shape my habits and my thought processes to block out any sort of rational thought on the subject.
However, I have never seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted God. I've done research on the subject, much like staying up all night on Christmas Eve, and at every turn have found the existence of God to be untrue.
Perhaps me not staying up all night on Christmas Eve is much the same as your not thoroughly examining your religion? Is there a difference?
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:13 AM #9
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I challenge anyone to find a research study with evidence that disproves santa.
I guarantee that no one has ever gone to the north pole and thoroughly searched for Santa claus. And I mean not just looking around. He could be hiding under the ice. or he could even live in a different dimension of space and time. think about it?
It's called probability. Such a claim doesn't require a full on scientific inquiry and 'man hunt' to disprove. The beauty of a null hypothesis is statistical probability. Once you add the variable 'Man that defies the laws of physics' you're pretty much guaranteed that it's not true. It's a little more complex than this but not worth wasting time discussing.

As far as your other inquiries and challenges, these debates/discussions have come up time and time again. You should read through some of the arguments and develop a better understanding. Though I'm an Atheist, you're style of 'debunking' religion is extremely juvenile.

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Old 06-22-2009, 08:37 AM #10
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well then by that reasoning, I have never seen God, talked to him or felt his presence. So, does this mean that he doesn't exist too? and theres always presents in my stocking, one year there was coal. I've never stayed up all night because maybe i like the thought of believing in santa. So to me, there has not been substantial proof that santa does not exist because i shape my habits and my thought processes to block out any sort of rational thought on the subject.
However, I have never seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted God. I've done research on the subject, much like staying up all night on Christmas Eve, and at every turn have found the existence of God to be untrue.
Perhaps me not staying up all night on Christmas Eve is much the same as your not thoroughly examining your religion? Is there a difference?
It seems a bit silly to have to explain to someone who I assume is over the age of 8 or 9 how we know that Santa Claus does not exist, but here goes.

How do we know that there is no Santa? Because every parent who perpetuates the myth with their children also places every present under the tree, fills each stocking, and takes each of those bites out of the cookies left out by their children. I have personally never seen nor know of anyone who claims to have discovered unexpected gifts or missing cookies on Christmas morning. In other words, there is absolutely no evidence of Santa's existence.

You apparently believe there is no evidence of God's existence either. I (and others) disagree, but trying to convince you would be a pointless excercise probably resulting in nothing more than more silly analogies on your part.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:18 AM #11
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OK, it seems the two topics discussed here is why do people believe the bible, and why God hasn't revealed himself.
1. People aren't supposed to believe in the bible LITERALLY, it never says in the bible "take these stories literally". The reason people created religion was to explain the unexplained. How was he Earth made? Genesis, but now we have science to prove it wrong. We have science to prove Noah's flood wrong. What science can't do, is disprove that those stories didn't have meaning. OP, You even said yourself, apple SYMBOLIZES knowledge, its ALL SYMBOLIC.
2. God has revealed himself in he last 6000 years if you want to believe in Jesus, but if you really want to, you could just accept Jesus' teachings and disprove his existence. On the other hand, maybe God doesn't want to talk with his creation. If you make something out of play-doh, or even get a pet, do you talk to it all the time? How God looks at time is not at all how humans look at time, by the time God thinks people need attention, centuries could pass us by. Or there is the idea of a clockmaker God. God created the world, and then just left it. I kind of like this idea because it gives people a sense (maybe not a reality) of free will. God isn't going to hold your hand through every little problem you have. You're meant to do things by yourself nd through others. If you waited for God to put food in our mouth, you'd starve. If you waited for God to give you a job, you'd go broke. You're supposed to go out there and do things by youself, with God and Jeses' teaching in your hearts, so you can become a better person.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:18 PM #12
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because it is your mom buying you that Xbox 360 and wrapping it up and putting it under the christmas tr.......waitaminute.

you were being SARCASTIC werent you you witty little devil you.

well, I guess comparing a devout christian to a 5 year old is apt.......wait......not apt......condescending. thats the word I was looking for.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:56 PM #13
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Because when people want to believe in something bad enough, theyll ignore all contradicting evidence to do so.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:07 PM #14
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Because when people want to believe in something bad enough, theyll ignore all contradicting evidence to do so.
wow - exactly what I think of many anti-theists (weighing the evidences differently)! kewl.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:19 PM #15
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Why everyone laughs at someone who believes that every year a jolly fat man flies around the entire world with a list of all the naughty and nice children and divies out gifts according to their wishes.
and when someone says that the universe was created in 6 days (minus one for rest because eventhough God is all powerful, he gets tired after a few days.) That man was created from mud and woman was created from mans rib and they lived walking around a giant garden with a talking snake, then the chick ate an apple (symbolizing knowledge i think?) and then God said GTFO and now we're all cousins .
they take them seriously.
or that an elderly drunk built a huge boat that contained 2 of every animal in the entire world because God unleashed a flood. (anyone who knows anything about Genetics knows theres something wrong with only 2)

as an aside.... what happened to all the sea creatures who would die in fresh water? im assuming that the rain was fresh. or amphibians. or animals like sea lions who need both land and ocean to survive.


I'm on your side of this argument, but given the premise that an almighty being was responsible for the flood, points about fish surviving in fresh water and the like seem relatively moot. I'm aware that this by no means strengthens the argument from the religious side, but think of it this way:

Their claim is that an all-powerful, universal being sent this flood. Whether or not that claim has any basis is irrelevant if we say "God sent this flood" and then take the logical path from there to try to derive a conclusion. If we say "God sent the flood," we must in some sense toss all points based on the laws of physics/biology aside because they have already been grossly violated in the initial premise.


Basically you can't say "If an all-powerful being sent this flood, here are the reasons it is impossible," because our limited view of possibility would be within the sphere of control of God.

This inevitable validity of this argument for the existence of God is actually a weakpoint.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:58 PM #16
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wow - exactly what I think of many anti-theists (weighing the evidences differently)! kewl.
While I agree with the general sentiment of your statement (which I interpret as "anti-theists have no evidence for their beliefs"), I would also say that there really is no evidence for anti-theists to ignore.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:02 PM #17
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wow - exactly what I think of many anti-theists (weighing the evidences differently)! kewl.
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While I agree with the general sentiment of your statement (which I interpret as "anti-theists have no evidence for their beliefs"), I would also say that there really is no evidence for anti-theists to ignore.
I think a misuse of "anti-theist" has occured.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:04 PM #18
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I think a misuse of "anti-theist" has occured.
Care to enlighten us?
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:13 PM #19
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I think a misuse of "anti-theist" has occured.
gee, thought I was making it up.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:22 PM #20
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Care to enlighten us?
Atheism seems to be the opposite of theism -- the topic of the thread. So when Mrs. Italack made the comment, he was talking about the lack of evidence theists have to proof there's a deity. Rambo preacher then made a comment about anti-theists being in the same quandary. However, I would claim that this is a misuse since anti-theists don't really focus on argument for/against god, but rather focus on arguments for pragmatically believing in something in societal contexts. So I picture anti-theists as being more apatheists than atheists.

For example, I think an anti-theists would argue that believing in gods causes wars, while an non-anti-theist would use the attributes of gods to form a theoretical contradiction. Both are arguments against believing in gods, but they focus on different reasoning.

Although I'm not saying that atheism and anti-theism are mutually exclusive.

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gee, thought I was making it up.
The words legit.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:35 PM #21
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Atheism seems to be the opposite of theism -- the topic of the thread. So when Mrs. Italack made the comment, he was talking about the lack of evidence theists have to proof there's a deity. Rambo preacher then made a comment about anti-theists being in the same quandary. However, I would claim that this is a misuse since anti-theists don't really focus on argument for/against god, but rather focus on arguments for pragmatically believing in something in societal contexts. So I picture anti-theists as being more apatheists than atheists.

For example, I think an anti-theists would argue that believing in gods causes wars, while an non-anti-theist would use the attributes of gods to form a theoretical contradiction. Both are arguments against believing in gods, but they focus on different reasoning.

Although I'm not saying that atheism and anti-theism are mutually exclusive.



The words legit.
Just like there is more than one definition for atheism, I suspect there is more than one definition for antitheism.

I've seen the word used to distinguish atheists who affirmatively believe there is no God from atheists who simply don't believe in a God.

And I've seen it used in the sense you stated, although I think semantically, it would be more meaningful to use a term like antitheismists or antireligionists.
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