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Old 05-27-2009, 07:31 PM #1
spyder_crawler
 
 
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blind shooting

alright i was reffing a woodsball game recently and a player(not a newbie by the way) was shooting while looking down the bottom part of his tank lined up to his face...clearly not looking down the barrel... i warned him to lower his gun and he said a few harsh words....then i got 5 or 6 complaints so i told him a little louder....then i saw he was still doing it so i kicked him....it wasnt like he was just randomly firing everywhere but still didnt seem fair anyone got any opinion on if i made a decent call?
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:56 PM #2
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If he's still looking in the general direction of where he's shooting without his bunker in his way then he's not blind firing. You don't need to look down along the barrel line. Players shoot lots of different ways, who are you to be the regulator of the correct and incorrect way to line up with your marker? How is it unfair? just say that gear hits count (I don't know of anywhere that gear hits do not count) and let the players play.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:16 AM #3
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why would you kick him?

if the player can see what he is shootin, it's is not blind fire...
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:39 AM #4
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Unfortunately some places have rules that gun hits do not count. This generally leads to poor calls, confusion on the part of the players and additional work for the refs. I suppose it does help fields sell more paint, as hits to exposed markers are not an elimation.

Furthermore, if he was not blind firing, but trying to use the existing rules to minimize his profile while firing... there is nothing wrong with that and he should not have been removed from the game.

I deduce from the previous posts that I am not alone on this... the problem is not the player, it is your fields poor rules and mediocre reffing.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:09 PM #5
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so by your logic i can assume that it is the same thing to look through a hole in a pallet bunker and stick your gun out the side and shoot as long as you can see where your paint is hitting...im trying to stick to field rules which seem pretty fair from what ive seeen
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:15 PM #6
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If he can see what he's shooting then it's not blind firing.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:28 AM #7
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Originally Posted by spyder_crawler View Post
so by your logic i can assume that it is the same thing to look through a hole in a pallet bunker and stick your gun out the side and shoot as long as you can see where your paint is hitting...im trying to stick to field rules which seem pretty fair from what ive seeen
1) As previously stated your fields rules on gun hits and blind firing are border line retarded.

2) In order to be blind firing you must be unable to see where you are firing.

3) Although not blind firing using a piece of cover that covers your entire body and then just shooting out the side could be construed as violating the spirit of the rule. The principle being that since gun its do not count, people still must expose some part fo their body in order to fire.

Also, blind firing could also be considered a safety issue since the individual is less aware of their surroundings, and what is actually occuring on the field, or where their shots are going.

However, actually aiming to shoot your marker and having your marker block most hits is the antithesis of blind firing, as the player is literally aiming the marker. Additionally the player is exposing themselves, it might not be a very large area, but it is possible for the player to be eliminated as a marker and hopper do not make up a huge rectangle, there are invariably openings and areas the player could get hit upon. These areas might be small, but they exist.

It is in the players best interest to minimize their exposure to the other team's fire. This player was operating within the rules given to him by the field, and you as the 15 year old arbiter of logic (of which you seem to have none) deemed that the rule isn't just to prevent blind firing and other closely asssociated actions, but to garuntee that all players expose a large portion of their body to the opposing team.

You are a bad ref, and your field has terrible rules that overly complicate the job of the ref staff, helps sell paint, and creates a less challenging environment for players.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:20 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Commander_Cool View Post
1) You are a bad ref, and your field has terrible rules that overly complicate the job of the ref staff, helps sell paint, and creates a less challenging environment for players.
A little overly-harsh.

I'd say he could see where he was shooting, thus not blind-firing.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:00 PM #9
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I do not ref at my local field but I play there all the time and I know everyone there. Last week I was hit right in the middle of my throat by a blind shot. Full on two hands and gun around corner poped me right in the throat. I have been shot in the throat before and its ot a huge deal but that pissed me off. Needless to say I had a few choice words as I came around the corner. Talked to ref, who then told all the players if he saw it again that he would kick them out.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:35 AM #10
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As long as his head is sticking out where he can see where he is shooting, its not blind fire. At my field it doesnt matter if their shooting straight and looking to the right, as long as their head is out with the gun.

Looking through a hole and shooting out the side is considered blind firing. And also sticking your barrel through a hole to shoot is as well.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:08 PM #11
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as long as his head is behind his marker its not a blind fire. you made a bogus call.
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:04 AM #12
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I don't know what each fields rules are as far as blind firing, on our hyberball/woodsball/speedball fields we try to watch and make sure kids aren't blind firing. Our definition of blind firing, if your head isn't coming out of the bunker with that gun then you are blind firing, if you can pop it out so that you are barely looking down the side of your tank, but can still see then it's legit. When I pop out of a speedball bunker I don't even really appear, the very edge of my mask comes and that's it. Now as far as punishing it, we use a simple system for pretty much all violations, 1st you get a verbal warning, 2nd you get taken out for the remainder of that game 3rd you are out for the day. Now don't get me wrong, if a kid blind fires a couple of time I don't take him out right away, I'll talk to him after the game, and try to work with him, but kicking them out is a really big thing, something I try my very hardest not to have happen.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:07 PM #13
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Originally Posted by spyder_crawler View Post
... i warned him to lower his gun and he said a few harsh words....then i got 5 or 6 complaints so i told him a little louder....then i saw he was still doing it so i kicked him....
Even tho he shouldn't have been kicked for blind-firing, you WERE justified in kicking him for the above quote. Any player that verbally bashes a ref, or fails to comly with the ref's directives should be kicked.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:16 PM #14
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Even tho he shouldn't have been kicked for blind-firing, you WERE justified in kicking him for the above quote. Any player that verbally bashes a ref, or fails to comply with the ref's directives should be kicked.
Agreed. From the way you described it, this player was actually raising his profile - I'm sure his hopper was well above his head, and his peripheral vision would have been cut in half, so are you sure he's not a newb? I can't think of any practical reason a player would hold his marker this way. If he was shooting before his eyes could see past the top of his bunker, then I would say he was blind firing. If he was just trying to look cool, I would say that he failed. Big time. Either way, he had no right to use Rated-R words in a PG-13 enviroment. Refs should not be the target of any player's verbal abuse. I would have sat him out for a game, and explain why - and I'd be sure to include that he looked like a freakin' moron.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:11 AM #15
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in all reality... you, the ref, should have shown him between rounds what you consider blind firing. AFTER that has been done... kick as much as you like. Also, players whining about other players is gonna happen. Try to weed through the bull**** and stand behind your call. If he wants to talk **** to you during a game, give him a warning and then pull him for a couple of rounds. Let him cool off, whine, *****, and then accept the fact that he should conform to the rules and how they are to be interpreted.

but ya, show him first... then kick as much as you like

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Old 10-18-2009, 02:14 PM #16
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You aren't supposed to "listen" to players unless they are calling for a paint check or have a legitimate question. They don't decide whos cheating and whos not, you do. You are the ref, not them.

That kid was by no means blind firing. Looking down the sight of the tank may cause innacuracy, but he can still see where he's shooting. Blind means "cannot see". Blind does not mean "improperly aiming".

What he was doing was perfectley fair...in fact, it propably gave him a disadvantage. I don't think you made the best call here, but now you know for next time.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:24 PM #17
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i hate blind shooters
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:18 PM #18
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Ok the field i work at does not count gun hits for rc ball. so the way i work the blind fire rule is this. If the opposing player has absoulty no way of possibly elimnating you the it is blind firing. this way it emcompasses the whole crakcs in the walls big enough to just stick your barrel through and that crap. people shoot different ways. i think aslong as he could see what he was firing at and there was ebuff of his head exposed to be possibly elminated then you shouldnt have booted him. BUT for the verbal bashing yes that was correct.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:19 PM #19
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i dont blind fire but if they know where a person is and blind fire over a bunker and get that person its fine. but if they are just shootin for the hell of it then theres a problem
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:06 PM #20
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i dont blind fire but if they know where a person is and blind fire over a bunker and get that person its fine. but if they are just shootin for the hell of it then theres a problem
I disagree. As a ref, if you shoot me while your blind firing, even if "you know where the person is" supposedly I'm still not going to be happy. It doesn't matter what kind of gun your using, whether it be a real one or paintball one, you should always know where you're shooting and what you're shooting at.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:21 PM #21
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you made the right call if these guys got shot by the person and they were on the same team they would be andgry and agree with you dont let them try to sway your decision good call ref
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