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Old 08-11-2014, 11:30 AM #1
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Bob long vcom experiment

Hi there I was wondering, since bob made the soft shot bolt which was a rod made of brass, could you do the same for the vcom? Or make lighter rods that are in the engine? For example, a rod made of carbon fiber which will be faster rates of fire, or a rod made of brass like the soft shot bolt. Could someone please tell me if it is possible. This project is driving in crazy!
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:44 AM #2
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I don't know about the brass, but I doubt it will work with the carbon fiber. After a few cases, I'm sure the fiber will start to wear and unweave
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:22 PM #3
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Any other lighter material?
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:47 PM #4
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Titanium or magnesium
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:36 PM #5
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YES or an aluminum alloy, something strong but light.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:51 PM #6
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Isn't the ram already aluminum?
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:22 PM #7
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the ram is made of aluminum yes, but I'm talking about an alloy, a mixture of other metals. Titanium is a great idea.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:36 PM #8
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"Magnesium is the lightest structural metal currently available in the world. Its approximately 34% lighter by volume than aluminum and 50% lighter than titanium. Besides light-weight construction, a few of the other advantages that magnesium offers are: excellent fatigue resistance, denting and buckling resistance, and the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal."

http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_...amagnesium.htm

I think titanium is heavier then Aluminum, but much stronger. Magnesium seems like the way to go.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:51 PM #9
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thank you sir!
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:52 PM #10
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any other ideas on the heavier materials?
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:16 PM #11
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So you want something heavier then brass that can be highly polished and used as a ram?

Carbide might work.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:09 PM #12
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Depleted Uranium ... it's safe-ish and very dense ...

What exactly are you trying to improve upon with this? The Vcom engine is amazing as it is ... and the VIS is available is you need efficiency. I'm not sure you would gain anything by slowing down the bolt and I don't know of any fields or tourneys that allow faster rates of fire above 15 BPS.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:56 AM #13
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Originally Posted by gretch6364 View Post
So you want something heavier then brass that can be highly polished and used as a ram? Carbide might work.

Carbide won't work. Too brittle. There are plenty of other heavy metals that will work to increase the weight of the ram.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:38 AM #14
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The heavy material would be used to make the soft shot bolt, like they made for the insight, they made a brass ram. And I was just wandering if the ram was made lighter, would you be able to reach a higher rate of fire at a faster speed? The lightweight ram was more of a question, sorry. But it still stands, would you be able to reach faster rates? Making a soft shot bolt for the vcom would be cool to see.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:06 AM #15
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Carbide won't work. Too brittle. There are plenty of other heavy metals that will work to increase the weight of the ram.
It depends on the specific blend. It is a man made materiel and you can make it have different properties. If it can handle a 20 ton press punching it through steel, connecting drill pipe on an oil rig, etc., it can handle being a ram in a pbgun.

Plus it can be polished to an insanely smooth finish. And milled to very very tight tolerances.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:37 AM #16
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It depends on the specific blend. It is a man made materiel and you can make it have different properties. If it can handle a 20 ton press punching it through steel, connecting drill pipe on an oil rig, etc., it can handle being a ram in a pbgun. Plus it can be polished to an insanely smooth finish. And milled to very very tight tolerances.
Ground to tight tolerances, not milled. I work for a cutting tool manufacturer, so I know a thing or two about carbide and custom grinding it for customers. At the diameters and lengths needed for the ram, any irregular shock could break it. Plus the cost would be ridiculous for it. If you're going to consider something like carbide, you should look into heavy metal. It's tougher than carbide, but still twice the weight of steel and 50% heavier than lead. Heavy metal handles shock and vibration way better than carbide. That's why it's primarily used in boring bar applications. It's a high density alloy of tungsten, nickel, iron, and copper. It is machinable and tougher than high cobalt content carbide.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:44 AM #17
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You are correct it would "ground" on a precision grinding machine. My tungsten carbide wedding ring seems to take shock pretty darn well. The cost would be high, but not due to material cost. I worked at a large tool and die shop for several years and have a lot of grinders in the family.

And you would probably be "milling" it in the preform stage....

Either way, it is pointless to even try. However, a magnesium body/frame would make one light *** gun.

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Old 08-12-2014, 09:53 PM #18
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You are correct it would "ground" on a precision grinding machine. My tungsten carbide wedding ring seems to take shock pretty darn well. The cost would be high, but not due to material cost. I worked at a large tool and die shop for several years and have a lot of grinders in the family. And you would probably be "milling" it in the preform stage.... Either way, it is pointless to even try. However, a magnesium body/frame would make one light *** gun.

Material cost isn't horrible for almost any material given that not a lot is needed for the ram. But given that you can machine heavy metal instead of grinding it, it would come out to a much cheaper part than carbide. Another option would be to use a carbide blank for the main portion of the shaft, then braze on steel ends. Then the shaft wouldn't require any major grinding and it would start as a much smaller diameter blank. Heck, I'll have to measure the rams. If the diameter and lengths are close to the shanks of commonly used tools at one of my customers, I could get their scrap if you have someone that can grind and braze ends on them.

The Dfender is the only magnesium body that I've seen in paintball. Screw machining that stuff, though, lol. With the lightweight markers out, SL tanks, light hoppers, all the weight will be in the balls!
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:13 AM #19
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[quote=all the weight will be in the balls![/QUOTE]

couldn't help but lol
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:24 AM #20
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The TM-15 also use the same magnesium shell.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:30 AM #21
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The TM-15 also use the same magnesium shell.

I did not know that! Interesting that they would invest in magnesium for a marker like that.
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