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Old 11-18-2014, 04:16 PM #1
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VIS One-Stop Info

Howdy!
So I thought Febo's Vcom One Stop Info thread was amazing. It helped me and many other owners of the VCOM engine diagnose, discuss, and repair/fix their engines. When I heard how awesome the VIS engine was, I saved up and bought one. Before that, I went through the time and research before buying something of that value. I was surprised to find there wasn't too much on the topic, and wished there was. Now I've owned, discussed, and enjoyed it for a while, I feel I'm prepared to have a go at making a similar thread. Hope you enjoy.

Rules:
  1. Before posting in this thread, please read it over and look at other's replies. The likelihood of someone having the same problem will be high once this thread matures.
  2. Please post here with useful, relevant, accurate information.
  3. If you have a problem, describe it to the best of your ability. Vagueness in your description of your issue will make it difficult to diagnose.

Basic info:

The VIS is bob's third iteration inline poppet valve engine for the marq Victory line of markers. Differences from the previous SC (supercharged) engine include: less tortured airpath, improved efficiency, simplified maintenance, smaller dynamic o-rings, and other minor changes. It is an extremely efficient engine, achieving close to a case of paint off of a 68/4500 tank. Any tank over that size, you'll be shooting well over a case. Many have found this engine to be very smooth compared to other poppets, with only a minimal amount of purely horizontal recoil. There is little to no barrel rise with this gun because of the nature of the engine. Bob designed this engine to be as smooth and quiet as possible at 15 BPS, and you won't achieve much higher rates of fire than that.

I made this chart to give you an idea of how many shots you can get with the VIS engine in most situations. I performed two efficiency tests, then averaged them with Big Papa Pink's numbers. After that it's only a matter of math. If you're curious as to how I came up with these numbers look at this post.


Bob's modern guns rely on a gripframe to mainbody o-ring that might blow if the input pressure from your tank is higher than 550 psi. While SLP output tank regulators are not required, they will allow you to shoot farther down into the tank and also make your ASA easier to turn on. Make sure your reg is set to 550, 450, or SLP before airing up. If you blew either the ASA to frame, or gripframe to mainbody, refer to the o-ring list section of this thread.

Tools needed:
You will need a 1/8 inch allen key to remove the bolt head from the ram. Mine was "well on there" and required a rubber glove wrapped around the bolt head and a pair of channel lock pliers to get it off the first time. Every subsequent time has gotten easier to remove. After about 5 removals, I can easily do it with my hands alone. You could also put two allen keys into the ports on the rear of the bolt head, then grip them with pliers to break the bolt head free the first time. After you remove it the first time, clean the excess locktite off both the male and female threads to make subsequent removal easier.

You will need a 3/32 allen key to remove the back cap.

You will need a 9/64 allen key to remove the back block off the back half of the can. This will allow access to the back cap o-ring.

O-ring List:

O-rings that are the same as the S.C. engine are red

VIS specific:
Irrespective of milling:
Bolt tip: 015 D70
Solenoid to mainbody: 1x3mm D70
Outside the front can: 021 D70
Manifold to solenoid: 1x3mm D70
Front inside can: 014 D70
Frame to mainbody: 1x4mm D70
Back outside can (between two halves of can): 020 D70
LPR housing to mainbody: 1x6.5mm D70
Blast Guide: 1x12 mm D70
ASA to frame: 1x12mm D70
Engine seals outside: 006 D70
LPR piston: 012 D70
Doughnut: 1x20mm D70
HPR above mounting point: 018 D70
Back cap: 1x14mm D70
HPR piston: 016 D70
Ram front: 008 D90
.
Ram middle: 008 D70
.
Ram back: 011 D70
.
Back can inside: 013 D70
.

O-rings irrespective of milling are the same for all victories.

Here is an o-ring kit for the SC Engine and all Victories. To fully rebuild the VIS engine, you'd only need to add the o-rings that are different from the SC engine. I haven't yet found a kit that rebuilds the entire VIS engine+VCOM engine+body seals+reg piston+solenoid o-rings.

O-ring locations:

for all you visual learners out there, I personally created these diagrams. The o-ring list was provided by Big Papa Pink



If you don't know what the parts are called look here.



Lubricants:
This is very personal. We all have our favorites that work well, and in many cases, most will work fine. I use monkey poo and have not had any issues with that slick/thin of a lube. The only place you don't use a DOW33 equivalent is the bolt head. The bolt head gets one drop of triflow on each o-ring.

The only reason you should have to use DOW55 on any o-rings in the VIS engine is to fix a stubborn leak. If you don't leak with a thinner lube, you do not need DOW55.



Settings:
This is another subjective one. You may run whatever you like, but range of pressures is as follows:
HPR: 160-180PSI
LPR: 60-75PSI
Dwell: 8-10ms

The more you break in your engine, the lower you will be able to get these settings.

I made a google doc that allows people to list their engine, dwell,HPR, LPR, velocity, consistency, environmental factors affecting performance (excuses), chrono used, and lube. Feel free to list what you are running so people may glance it over and figure out what pressures they might want to try running their various engines at! Please do not abuse this document.

Tuning:
The ideal way to tune any victory is with a pressure tester. You can buy these from BLAST directly or other paintball stores. It will slide into the place where the engine usually is. Many have found the stock gauges that come with the tester to be too inaccurate to really fine-tune with precision. If you want to have complete accuracy, pick up some nice gauges.

If you don't want to spend the money on a pressure tester, feel free to try this popular method of tuning. I personally find it had to accomplish and would rather just spend the money on a tester.

Quote:
Lurker method of sweetspotting regulators:

1: Back out both regs completely or set both the HPR and LPR to 0 psi.
2: Raise HPR slightly (only to set LPR for cycling).
3: Raise LPR to fully cycling ~45 psi or so.
4: Raise HPR until velocity begins to stop rising as you increase pressure.
5: Raise LPR to desired velocity.
6: Lower HPR a bit, then raise if necessary... You're trying to find the best HPR setting at the LPR setting you have. This may put your velocity over 300/285.
7: Lower LPR slightly to field velocity.
Useful Links:

Bob talking about and re-lubing the VIS engine

Bob long Direct
If you need to get into contact with BLAST for any reason, simply call them up. Emailing is a sure-fire way to not get a response, while dialing them up is a sure-fire way to talk to a friendly, knowledgeable human being. Often, you will get to Bob himself or his son Zach


Please correct me where I goofed, post what should be added (I'll edit this with good posts), and let me know what else I need to cover!

Last edited by bag681 : 06-14-2015 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:16 PM #2
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Change Log:

11.18.14- Added common operating pressures. Thanks to Big Papa Pink
11.19.14- Added tuning section. Thanks to the korean1
11.20.14- Added basic info section. Revised and added to the useful links section.
11.22.14- Added tank input pressure paragraph in basic info section. Thanks to TheNordicBuffadillo
12.29.14- Added more information on initial bolt head removal. Thanks to gretch6364
1.6.15- Corrected certain capitalization errors, improved word choice, and re-worked certain sentences.
2.19.15- Added detailed efficiency numbers and link to methodology. Renamed this post to "Change Log".

Last edited by bag681 : 02-19-2015 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:03 PM #3
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Perfect! That looks great and thank you for putting it together.
I would post pressures maybe and maybe the recommended dwell.
I have found LPR of 60 to 75 depending on the marker is about right with a Dwell of 8.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:40 PM #4
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Very Nice
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:09 PM #5
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Good job.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:15 AM #6
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Very nice work. the only thing i see you could add to the main post is the directions on how to manually sweet spot your regulators.
for an alternative of the pressure tester.

and this is perfect timing as i am just about to buy a vis engine this week.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:10 PM #7
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If you don't want to spend the money on a regulator

regulator should be tester right?

great thread
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:42 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAkuma View Post
If you don't want to spend the money on a regulator

regulator should be tester right?

great thread
Thanks! I hope in a coming hypothetical gun Bob includes pressure sensors in both regulators to be read out on the screen. Would make tuning much quicker and easier.
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Last edited by bag681 : 11-20-2014 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:05 PM #9
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My VIS has a constant "small" leak trough the barrel. I tried changing orings 2 times and NEW doughnut 2 times but still leaks Any tips to how i repair this ? To get 295 fps i need allot more HPR than normal like 200 PSI
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:10 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adonay View Post
My VIS has a constant "small" leak trough the barrel. I tried changing orings 2 times and NEW doughnut 2 times but still leaks Any tips to how i repair this ? To get 295 fps i need allot more HPR than normal like 200 PSI
200 psi to to get to 295 doesn't sound too abnormal, although check your LPR pressure and dwell. You need to put a light layer of lube on the face of the doughnut itself. Try those and report back.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:14 PM #11
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face as in front of doughnut ? LPR 75 and dwell 9. Actually i am far from impressed with my VIS engine
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:17 PM #12
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Refer to the lubricants section of the OP. There needs to be a thin layer of lube on the front/face/visible portion of the doughnut.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:30 PM #13
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I may have missed it, but do you need an SLP regulator for a VIS? Been thinking about getting one, but want to make sure I have the correct type of regulator.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:32 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNordicBuffadillo View Post
I may have missed it, but do you need an SLP regulator for a VIS? Been thinking about getting one, but want to make sure I have the correct type of regulator.
SLP is ideal but not required. Anything under 550 psi will work just fine. I personally have a Ninja Pro V2 reg set to 450 psi on mine. SLP lets you shoot farther down into the tank and makes turning your asa on and off easier.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:27 PM #15
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:30 PM #16
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Any reason why my new reptile VIS would come with a silver bolt in the VCOM motor vs. the red one shown in yourpbfriend's video?
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:32 PM #17
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The silver bolt is on the victus too. I guess it's what they're doing now
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:39 PM #18
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Thanks for the reply! Seemed strange. Not too much info out on the VIS's out right now it seems like. Both engines really need to be broken in; they're smooth, but not as smooth as I was expecting. As far as my V1, and G6R are concerned in comparison. My V1 has to have >150 cases through it though.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:28 AM #19
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i have a new vis engine in my ripper and i cannot get it to shoot 300 without cranking up the pressure. my HPR is 220 and lpr is 85 and dell is at 9.5. does the engine need to be broken in cause i want to run it at a lower pressure and my tank a low pressure.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:34 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyr View Post
i have a new vis engine in my ripper and i cannot get it to shoot 300 without cranking up the pressure. my HPR is 220 and lpr is 85 and dell is at 9.5. does the engine need to be broken in cause i want to run it at a lower pressure and my tank a low pressure.
1. Clean both regs and re-lube
2. Reset pressures (possibly get nicer gauges to ensure accuracy)
3. Re-lube entire engine and swap o-rings if they're causing drag
4. Does your tank have pressure? (This is a given)
5. What lube are you using?
6. Are you boring your paint?
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:55 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bag681 View Post
1. Clean both regs and re-lube
2. Reset pressures (possibly get nicer gauges to ensure accuracy)
3. Re-lube entire engine and swap o-rings if they're causing drag
4. Does your tank have pressure? (This is a given)
5. What lube are you using?
6. Are you boring your paint?
I have done all that except change all the o-rings cause the engine is brand new from blast. My tank is a ninja with all the shims remove and have been using monkey poo. Also it helped when i raise the dwell from 8 to 9.5 but now the gun sounds louder. and my presser tester have huge gauges to be able to read it more accurate.
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