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Old 06-04-2009, 04:42 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warbeak2099 View Post
If there is evidence of such an event, then guess what the answer is. BECAUSE THERE'S EVIDENCE! There is no evidence of a global flood on earth.

That's kinda why I was asking, I have heard people say that it is possible but no actual evidence. Just curious.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:15 PM #44
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Ken Ham? For real?

As for Walt Brown, he opens with "Too much limestone exists on earth to have been formed, as evolutionists claim, by present processes on the earth’s surface..."

Simple geology blows this right out of the water.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:42 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouse87 View Post
Sorry, im not an archeologist, so i don't know much about rocks so i just posted whatever i found in 5seconds.

if you don't like ken ham, don't read it. Walt Brown is very smart, and makes good points, maybe some of his reasoning is weird.

A little latter, i'll post an epic answer.
Walt Brown seems like a very shady person.

"The Center for Creation Science has an online edition of Walt Brown’s In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood (7th Edition). In a section called “Genetic Distances” Brown says:

One computer-based study, using cytochrome c, a protein used in energy production, compared 47 different forms of life. If evolution happened, this study should have found that, for example, the rattlesnake was most closely related to other reptiles. Instead, based on this one protein, the rattlesnake was most similar to man. Since this study, experts have discovered hundreds of similar contradictions.

If you like go to the original and check Brown’s reference ( d). He has the nerve to cite his son’s two decades old student project as a source. And as we will see the only way he could make this claim is with deceptions.

“The Bullfrog Affair” was written by David C. Wise in 1990. He debunked a wide variety of creationists falsely claiming biochemical similarities that are contrary to evolutionary expectations. On this particular claim Wise wrote:

Frank Arduini encountered a similar protein claim by Walter T. Brown Jr. of the Chicago area; his Center for Scientific Creation used to be ICR Midwest Center. Arduini had had many dealings with Brown, whose response to Arduini’s many requests for documentation was that he didn't need to supply evidence supporting his claims, rather it was responsibility of the evolutionists to disprove them.

One of Brown's claims that Arduini was especially interested in was that the rattlesnake's closest biochemical relative is humans. However, Brown demanded $70 from Arduini to provide that documentation."

http://members.cox.net/ardipithecus/...es/lie025.html
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:31 PM #46
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SlamJack avvy War?
I love Slamjack and the OG message it represents lol. It was time for a change.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:15 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
Ken Ham? For real?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball View Post
Walt Brown seems like a very shady person.
do you always feel the need to tear someone down as part of your argument?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhominem

yes, I know that SOMETIMES you then address points, but why even start off that way? just wondering.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:56 AM #48
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If you want to be taken seriously you should probably not use people who are known to have a specific agenda like the 3 you mentioned. I am going to call anyone out when they use anyone like that. Sorry if you do not like it but to be taken serious in a debate you should use a proper source.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:12 AM #49
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but you are using ad hominem, and genetic source argumentation (there is a problem with something in the source, so everything the source has to say is invalidated), and for me, these are reasons to not take you seriously. I read the first couple sentences, then go to ignore mode, since YOU have "an agenda", and dont' seem to want to really have a discussion, only an argument.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:15 AM #50
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Every thread has an agenda. What you do is when you know you are going to be proven wrong is lash out, put your tail between your legs, and then run away. Just like you did earlier in the thread because you did not like the grounds laid out knowing you were on the losing side of this debate.

Thanks for playing.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:17 AM #51
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you go back to retort, instead of answering my question. thanks for playing.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:01 AM #52
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Really it's whatever people think will help their case. Believing more in one and not the other will help you look over faults that source may have. You'll be more critical of someone you think has an opposing idea.....
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:43 AM #53
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Really it's whatever people think will help their case. Believing more in one and not the other will help you look over faults that source may have. You'll be more critical of someone you think has an opposing idea.....
If that someone from the opposing side would stop trying to use psuedo science and actually do some leg work to work on their own theory(creation in this case) I would respect them more. Unfortunately the 2 cases that were mentioned earlier are know crack pots and cannot be taken serious at all.

To debate you look at all aspects of the other side and respond accordingly. If you are going to use said crack pots as your source material be prepared to be called out on it.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:45 AM #54
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There is no way i have the time to answer all 60 of your questions right now, but Walt Brown wrote these:

http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...imestone2.html
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...html#wp1896092

Read other portions of that website, they might answer some questions.

Other people, like Ken Ham :
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/flood
I read through a little bit of "Freshwater Fish Survive the Flood?"

Full of laughable pseudoscience

Natural selection does not work in the overly simplistic model described by the article. The article assumes that that salinity tolerance is a simple trait - it is a complex trait whose levels of expression are graduated. Even if it were a simple trait, such a massive global flood would likely create a depensational environment for fish breeding, regardless of any tolerance.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:52 AM #55
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I read through a little bit of "Freshwater Fish Survive the Flood?"

Full of laughable pseudoscience

Natural selection does not work in the overly simplistic model described by the article. The article assumes that that salinity tolerance is a simple trait - it is a complex trait whose levels of expression are graduated. Even if it were a simple trait, such a massive global flood would likely create a depensational environment for fish breeding, regardless of any tolerance.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:03 PM #56
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The "hydroplate theory" is laughable garbage. Sites like creationscience.com (nice oxymoron in the title btw) prey on the ignorant and uneducated.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:00 PM #57
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Glory to Yahweh. Jeshwah, and Spiritu.

Im a Bio-medical engineer I cannot spell if you want to comment about my spelling great! but Im already acknowleding I cannot spell or type, I use a calculator and pencil.

I understand that my arguments although scientifically validated. and given concrete evidance has a slim likely hood of converting your beliefs, this post is inteded for you whose faith has been compromised by people who claim to be smart but are truly ignorant.

500 years ago we were positive that the earth was flat, the bible written 6000 yearts ago says this: It is he [God] that sitteth upon the circle [sphere] of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers…"
how do you explain that with out there being an intrinsic God ispiring this round earth?

Science can and has been wrong when the bible has been infalably correct, there is a God and there is a Satan, and Satan will do whatever he can to make people go to hell, weather its "disproving his existance" by science or promoting sex on t.v. WATCH EXPELLED PROFFESORS LOSE THEIR JOBS WHEN PRODCUING SCIENTFIC EVIDENCE FOR THIS STUFF. So when you say wheres the evidence thats where it is gone because the World cant handle a God of the universe, instead of the God within themselves.


#1.) Where did the Flood water come from, and where did it go?

Simple there was more land mass pre-flood. risidual water is still around.
Could explain why the world is covered by 70% water and theres no other planet in the universe that has water in liquid form.

#2.) If there was a vapor canopy, how was the water suspended, and what caused it to fall all at once when it did?

There was a thick layer of atmosphere called the vapor canopy.
This is what casued there to be more preasured conditions on the earth at the time, and higher level of 02, higher preasure, it was actually crystalized like the shields on the helemets of space suits. there was no water suspened, the canopy was in the form of elements that make up water, hydrogen and 02.

What caused it to collapse, well God did of course, how he choose to collapse it, well choose any of the following natural disasters,

Super Volcano,
Comet,
Planets entering the solar system and throwing off the gravitational pull so mcuh that it caused it to crack
and the list goes on.

The canopy caused hyper barich like conditions, a crack would cause a worldwide catastrophy, i.e the flood.

#3.) If there was a vapor canopy a part of the atmosphere, how would it not raise the atmospheric pressure accordingly, raising oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels?

It did! good observation, to bad science cannot make more logical observations such as the one above.

But, whats completly illogical is the fact to assume that the organisms that inhabbited the earth pre-flood were biologically the same as those that are on the earth today.

As animals adapt to hostile conditions today, animals pre-flood adapted to conditions like all the rest of them.


These animals were created to exist in this enviroment that was highly oxoginzted, so when that enviroment went away, so did the 75 ton dinosaurs.

I have a question for you The 140000 lb bracheasaurus had nostrils the same size as 2000 lb horse, the ammount of air that would have had to pass through its nostrils would have cause a kinetic friction so high that would have spontaneously combusted flesh. If breathed at the same rate that a horse does today, it would have passed out and died in less than 2 mins? So how did these things live?

3b) raising oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels

When drilling into the amber of mosquitos and examining the air levels trapped in the amber, scientist concluded the levels of air were 50 60& O2 taking into account was not perfectly preserved, the atmosphere was different, well what caused this? maybe a canopy or different layer of the atmosphere we dont know about?

#4.) If the water canopy began as ice in orbit, how would the gravitational potential energy not raise the temperature past boiling?

It was not Ice, did I say it was? It was a mixture of hydrogyn and many other Organic elements, not ICe. Next question.

#6.) How would a vapor canopy remain intact above the ozone layer as UV radiation would invariably break apart water molecules?

Its not exactly vapor, Contact Dr.Charles Baugh P.H.D
254-897-3200 and he will furthur explain if you would like, Im gunna spnd 2-3 hours on this not 2-3 months.

next questions.

Last edited by Cuatro : 06-06-2009 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:51 PM #58
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#7.) If there was a hydroplate (Flood waters coming from a layer of water underground, released by a catastrophic rupture of the earth's crust, shot above the atmosphere, and fell as rain.) how was the water contained?
8.) If there was a hydroplate, how was the water not superheated?

#9.) If there was a hydroplate, where is the evidence? Fissures? Deposits?

#10.) If the global flood water came from an ice comet, how was it not superheated as it entered the atmosphere?


God didnt do it this way see posts 1-6 on this one.

#11.) How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

One atmospheric layer one crack one waterfall.
If I was to pour a water hose on one spot on a yard, the one spot would be much more erode than the rest of yard, yet, the whole yard would be eventually flooded.

#12.) Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series?

Ice less dense than water, thereforce ice floats. Simple logic there. why would Ice be so damaged, it would look the same as a strong hurricane.

#13.) How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up, how are they still intact?

No it wouldnt have, Archimedes Principle Any object that is either partially or completely submerged in a fluid will always feel a buoyant force acting on it

Use P=m/v Fs=Wdisplaced. 9800 kg/m^3 as water density, 5280ft as distance displaced. and youll se force exerted < weight of Ice

Therforce by archamedies principle. Your theory is busted.

#15.) Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating?

This one truly made me laugh, How old is the oldest tree on earth?

http://sonic.net/bristlecone/ 4787, the bible says a flood happened around 4400-4800 years ago.

what a coincidence, all the trees in the world were destroyed then trees started to grow again.

go look up the age of the oldest coral reef in the world? will be right after that flood date too!

#16.) Why are geological eras consistent worldwide? How do you explain worldwide agreement between "apparent" geological eras and several different (independent) radiometric and nonradiometric dating methods?

All Rock dating, is falsifed by a flood, double negative cant have an argument, once again contact charles baugh

#17.) How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution?

Im sure everyone has heard of the MIssing link? and cave men? we have no record of themeither. Nebraska man was formed from one tooth.

nxt questions
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:11 PM #59
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#18.) Why didn't at least one dinosaur make it to the high ground with the elephants?

You have 2 #18's, so I have A, and B.

18)A. Who says that dinosaurs arenot still here on earth? Or did not make it.

This argument will take hours, once again Contact Dr.Baugh, or myself by pm, but dinosaurs are still here they are just not 80 ton beasts any more, I will furthur explain.

As far as an abridged version, please look at the following
Video Showing why dinosaurs exist, and 500,000 dollars if you can disprove the man, Go for it mr.scientist sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jwh5gCEPr8

A picture of a dinosaur Carcuss found in 1978

http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/plesios.htm

Why did we find a carcuss of a dinosaur if none of them made it with the elephants? next question.

#19.) How are coral reefs hundreds of feet thick and miles long were preserved intact with other fossils below them?

Once again simple logic, The oldest coral reef in the world is 4200 years old.
http://ask.reference.com/web?q=How+O...&l=dir&o=10601
There were animals preflood, they died and are now under the coral reefs.

The bible said a flood happend around 4-5 thousand years ago. what do you know the oldest coral reef is not older than that.

hmmmm....
#20.) How did sensitive marine life such as coral survive?
See question above

#21.) Why do small organisms dominate the lower strata, whereas fluid mechanics says they would sink slower and thus end up in upper strata?
Furthur explain this before I answer it not sure quite what your asking.

#22.) Why are there no human artifacts found except in the very uppermost strata? If, at the time of the Flood, the earth was overpopulated by people with technology for shipbuilding, why were none of their tools or buildings mixed with trilobite or dinosaur fossils?

Actually they have been found. Yet our media surrpress them, and you never here about it because Satan overwhelming covers up all of it.

Look at the following pictures, Tools, footprints and all of the following have been found
http://www.creationism.org/cem/index.htm
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:57 PM #60
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This post above is laughable. These people start by assuming there was a global flood, twist what little evidence they can find to suit their needs, ignore or refute all the evidence that discounts the flood:
Quote:
All Rock dating, is falsifed by a flood
, then come up with crazy theories about the origin of the flood waters.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:52 PM #61
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#11.) How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

One atmospheric layer one crack one waterfall.
If I was to pour a water hose on one spot on a yard, the one spot would be much more erode than the rest of yard, yet, the whole yard would be eventually flooded.
so youre saying that during the global flood, it was only raining on the eastern edge of north america?
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:02 PM #62
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This post above is laughable. These people start by assuming there was a global flood, twist what little evidence they can find to suit their needs, ignore or refute all the evidence that discounts the flood: , then come up with crazy theories about the origin of the flood waters.
You picked out the only piece of evidance I did not have backed by scientific evidance.

Attaway to totally neglect everything else I had.

Please disprove something.

I just stated If there was a world wide flood carbon dating would not work.

Furthurmore, In a different atmosphere the ammount of radiation entering the earth would differ. Check your facts, and why dont you critizise something else worth while.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:03 PM #63
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so youre saying that during the global flood, it was only raining on the eastern edge of north america?
How did you extrapalate that no I didnt, im just saying its rainning in other places more than others. Simple logic it would not be a steady rain over the entire earth.

In the small rainstorms we see today, we do not have constant pour down.

He said with a world wide flood the errosion would be even and I said no it wouldnt.
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