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Old 05-07-2009, 02:28 AM #1
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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Appreciation Theory: How is it best to get someone "into" a genre?

I've been thinking about a trend that people take when trying to get someone "into" a certain genre of music

This thread will focus on the example of hip-hop music, because I find this trend to be most pervasive in this genre.

Consider the following scenario:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rap n00b
wats up, i heard the latest wayne track the other day and really liked it, what's some stuff like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by standard reply
Wayne sucks, he's not real hip hop. If you want to listen to the real **** listen to Ready to Die* and prepare to have your mind blown
*can be replaced with any album/rapper the responder feels is more suitable to the ideal of "real hip hop" whether that mean golden age, indie, underground, etc

This reply is bad for two reasons:

1. It's counter productive - If you really want to turn this kid onto hip-hop, you're chasing him away. He's not the the point where he's ready/willing to appreciate stuff like that yet

2. Guy number two isn't right, anyway - Now, I don't want to open up the big can of worms that "music is subjective." But it's true: nothing in art is inherently better than anything else. Granted, if you assume certain conditions of artistic merit (ie, complexity of vocabulary, sophistication of rhyme scheme, etc) a system of ranking of sorts does emerge. But you can't honestly expect such standards to be adhered to or deemed important by everybody, nor can you consider them "wrong" for failing to do so. Especially given the variety of functions hip-hop music has come to serve.

I feel that there's too big an emphasis among message board population such as this one on distinguishing what's good or bad music, no matter which side of the debate you happen to fall on. In rap, there's the whole "real hip hop vs. commercial sell out bull****" versus "rap vs. pretentious backpack wearing asshat music," depending on how you see it. (To draw an example from elsewhere, "real jazz vs smooth commercial bull****" or "fun music vs. people who play too fast") I listen to lots of music from both camps: I like Jay-Z, Aesop Rock, J Dilla, Nas, Wu-Tang, Lil Wayne, Kanye, Sage Francis, etc. The point of me saying this isn't to stroke my dick and say "look how diverse I am," I'm just saying that it's entirely possible to think Tha Carter III as an awesome album while appreciating that Illmatic is a milestone of hiphop. The two really aren't mutually exclusive activities.

What I guess I'm saying is, it's best to recommend people to look for music that they want to listen to, rather than automatically go "Soulja boi am **** go listen to 36 chambers"

I'd just like to mention that I'm not defending the "I like it because it sounds good" variety of logic, in case someone interprets my argument as such

well with that bit of my bizzare manifesto out there, what do y'all think

Last edited by Ando, raider from mx : 05-07-2009 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:29 AM #2
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Appreciation*
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:31 AM #3
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Appreciation*
This.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:32 AM #4
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ty sir
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:34 AM #5
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Otherwise, I generally applaud your theory.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:42 AM #6
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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see, i was thinking of making this thread under a new account, because I think some people will agree with me just because they usually agree with me, and others will disagree just because the usually disagree

but i don't really care that much, i guess

btw that's not a specific reference to you kain so don't take it as such
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:44 AM #7
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Well, it's true. Attacking somebody's taste most likely isn't going to garner their attention towards what you deem better. Some people may put up with it because they really only seek acceptance, but a lot of people will tell you to **** off for it.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:52 AM #8
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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which is why I think "essential albums" lists are dumb for getting into a genre initially; they're only for fleshing out your tastes once you've decided you liked it. "Getting into" a genre is a much more personal thing than I think a lot of people give it credit for.

two examples:

I got into rap through Aesop Rock, initially. Had someone told me to listen to Ready to Die, Illmatic, All Eyez on Me, 36 Chambers, Black on Both Sides, etc, I would have thought they were perpetuating all the things I hate about hip hop, because at the time I felt misogyny/violence in music was wrong, inherently. I wasn't ready for "essential" listening.

I got into jazz through the Mahavishnu Orchestra, and it took me awhile to be able to accept music without lout guitars and crazy fast drumming. I really couldn't have dug a love supreme, at the 5 spot, etc, back then

Last edited by Ando, raider from mx : 05-07-2009 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:31 AM #9
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I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I don't feel like typing them out at 5:30 am, after writing a massive paper and studying for ten hours. I'm not even sure why I'm typing this, maybe as a bookmark to come back to this thread later. In short, agreed on some levels, but I think the issue at hand is part of a larger phenomenon that has arisen in the music listening community over the last decade, in large part because of the internet. I think a whole lot of stuff has happened in regard to the social climate of music that people haven't fully realized yet.
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:02 PM #10
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once you start gravitating towards the perfected, less accessible, more authentic, lesser known ****, you'll stop liking the generic, obvious, mediocre, mainstream ****. guaranteed. most people never get there though because they don't have a genuine interest in a given music genre(s).

so i'd say, link the waynefag to last.fm and end it there. let people find their own ****.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:35 PM #11
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interesting
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:59 PM #12
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob_pwner View Post
once you start gravitating towards the perfected, less accessible, more authentic, lesser known ****, you'll stop liking the generic, obvious, mediocre, mainstream ****. guaranteed. most people never get there though because they don't have a genuine interest in a given music genre(s).

so i'd say, link the waynefag to last.fm and end it there. let people find their own ****.
but these things aren't analogous with bad music, and there's no reason to stop listening to it

what do you mean "genuine" interest? you can only be "genuinely" interested in hiphop if you listen to 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Illmatic, etc? that's dumb

see point #2
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:32 PM #13
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My thoughts go either way on this. I feel though this can vary per genre. This poppy mainstream hip hop which is so deplored has its place in the clubs and is vastly different from underground, messaged forcused hip hop.

Mainstream metal, at least in the modern day scenario tends to be terrible and a very very poor version of already good material out there in the underground. Most of which came out years before most these bands put out the sub par watered down snore fests.

I do feel that art is subjective but at the same time I feel that there are good and bad within the context of that genre/style/whathaveyou.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:59 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando, raider from mx View Post
but these things aren't analogous with bad music, and there's no reason to stop listening to it

what do you mean "genuine" interest? you can only be "genuinely" interested in hiphop if you listen to 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Illmatic, etc? that's dumb
see point #2
no, those are obvious...

i didn't mention 'bad.' uh, a reason would be... you realized something perfected, less accessible, more authentic, lesser known was better and got bored of generic, obvious, mediocre, mainstream.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:12 PM #15
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but generic obvious and mainsatream aren't synonyms for mediocre

ie liking Da Drought 3 and Black Star aren't mutually exclusive
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:37 PM #16
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yeah i should have used slashes instead of commas to prevent the confusion there, but maybe you get my point.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:50 PM #17
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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oh ok i dig
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:54 PM #18
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Seems like you're ranting to justify your taste in music.
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:28 PM #19
Ando, raider from mx (Banned)
 
 
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no i actually have awesome taste in music tyvm
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:10 PM #20
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no i actually have awesome taste in music tyvm
Sure you do.
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:06 PM #21
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Sure you do.
He does, for the most part.

As another member of the "Good Taste Club" I can vouch for him.
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