Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2009, 10:48 PM #1
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
A team decimating.

If you're not here for a story, read the letters in red for the REAL question.

So, in spite of this time of me blowing off an English essay, I've decided to come here to state my problem and hopefully someone here will listen to my words of a sad man's tale...

The team, Conspiracy Theory [originally FTW] has been a year old, and has already went through one re-creation. The team originally was all-friend based, basically an invitational team. Everyone liked the sport, so we had literally 11... people who have never played before. That was our first problem. After a month, we lost half. Then in three months, all but two left.

Then in November the two members decided to get into it more seriously, and decided to set up a tryout for people who wanted to give the sport a try... still friends. The team sucessfully reformed in December. But as the time has gone on, it has come to decline further and further once more.

Since December we've obtained a sponsorship from Davis Paintball in Sacramento, where we only get the basics such as Free Air. Our team roster has been a ****-pile for awhile. One of the players had mental problems [not even kidding] and one of the players was straight up broke and not dedicated even when he had money. We're trying to save the broke player that isn't dedicated by showing him the happiness of ballin'.

We got two chances for sponsorship through RedZ International and Angel Paintball Sports, but due to our own reasons turned them down. In return, we've decided to set up our own outfit for tournaments-- and it's not cheap.

But the real question is;
Two of us currently remain, yet again. And not the same two that stayed through the team's worst last time. Me and another player that was re-added when the team reformed. We live in a transition town that was once rural, but is turning very metropolis-like. There's maybe... three paintball players in this town MAX that we have not already tried getting.

Should we spend time trying to get more people into the sport?

The reason we don't want to go this path, is because paintball is more of an investment at start. A lot of players don't want to throw down $320 to match our team apparel, and it will take time and lots of hard work to shape them into what we've finally become, players worthy of D4 [maybe]. Give an opinion with some sort of well laid out answer instead of "yes" and "no". Thanks.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-22-2009, 11:01 PM #2
EvilAuthorityX
PUMPER_TYLER
 
EvilAuthorityX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach CA
EvilAuthorityX is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
[size="3"]
The reason we don't want to go this path, is because paintball is more of an investment at start. A lot of players don't want to throw down $320 to match our team apparel, and it will take time and lots of hard work to shape them into what we've finally become, players worthy of D4 [maybe]. Give an opinion with some sort of well laid out answer instead of "yes" and "no". Thanks.

this is where you failed, this isnt 2005 nobody wears matching gear anymore

just play paintball, matching clothes is the last thing that should be on your mind.

why are you looking for sponsors???? you havent even won any tourneys..

"pay for" sponsors are exactly that, you get a team discount and get nothing more than you payed for.


you guys are out of money before your even hitting the field.
__________________
PS131
98 STO sniper


Last edited by EvilAuthorityX : 03-22-2009 at 11:04 PM.
EvilAuthorityX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:17 PM #3
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAuthorityX View Post
this is where you failed, this isnt 2005 nobody wears matching gear anymore

just play paintball, matching clothes is the last thing that should be on your mind.

why are you looking for sponsors???? you havent even won any tourneys..

"pay for" sponsors are exactly that, you get a team discount and get nothing more than you payed for.


you guys are out of money before your even hitting the field.
It seems you want to go on the complete offensive without understanding why we're doing... what we're doing.

·The 2005 comment wasn't really necessary, I don't understand your allusion.

·We use the matching clothes to show organization, you either get with the program, or you get the **** out. You choose your own fate.

·We're not looking for sponsors, we declined two, and only accepted the Davis Paintball sponsorship. Why do you think our remake is so expensive?

·And we're not really out of money before we hit the field, I don't know about the rest of the paintballers around here, but I can hold my own end, fundwise.

The 320 is really just an estimate, without the organization and the wallet-slapper, a lot of the team won't even considering taking it seriously. Good things need investing, it's time for people to understand that. It's not so much throwing 320 down on the table RIGHT THERE, you could ease your way into it, the large amount of money is showing the commitment really.

It's much more than just having stuff to wear, it's showing your team is organized, the team isn't a bunch of slackers shooting their friends in the ***, if we don't get organized, we don't get serious. Understand?

By the way, you completely avoided the question I asked, woopideedoo.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.

Last edited by Everto : 03-22-2009 at 11:29 PM.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:30 PM #4
pbmike88
Wasted Generation
 
pbmike88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Manchester, Connecicut
i see where you are going. but on the other hand, i think dropping the matching gear thing would be good for attracting more people to your team. for instance, do like a 50 dollar entry fee kinda thing, and use that to supply a team jersey that matches. i think pants and gun and harness and mask allmatching is a bit much, especially since your probably having trouble finding people to even be interested, let alone drop money down out of the break.

but dont rush it, very rarely do you find a solid group of players all at once and quickly being successful in tournies. you'll go through dozens of people.
__________________

ALL OUT PAINTBALL
pbmike88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:35 PM #5
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmike88 View Post
i see where you are going. but on the other hand, i think dropping the matching gear thing would be good for attracting more people to your team. for instance, do like a 50 dollar entry fee kinda thing, and use that to supply a team jersey that matches. i think pants and gun and harness and mask allmatching is a bit much, especially since your probably having trouble finding people to even be interested, let alone drop money down out of the break.

but dont rush it, very rarely do you find a solid group of players all at once and quickly being successful in tournies. you'll go through dozens of people.
We're willing to financially support new players willing to get into the sport, which is really what I'm thinking this team is going to start getting into. The marker matching isn't what we're looking for, everyone's allowed to shoot what they want, but what they get shot in is what I'm looking at.

But the way you put it does sound good, a 50 dollar entry fee kinda matches and takes care of the price of jerseys. The only thing we're aiming for matching is mask, pants, and harness. After that I don't care what you wear.

Me and the other active member [we have a deactivated member] are going to search for players at our school, and are aiming to start a paintball club at our school by providing references to colleges that have & support paintball teams, and what kind of sport it is. We expect the paintball club to drag in a number of people to the sport-- because our school is full of angry & and troubled teenagers.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:36 PM #6
JD9940
Forever an AA's Fan
 
JD9940's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
JD9940 supports Cereal Killerz 2
JD9940 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
JD9940 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
JD9940 plays in the APPA D4 division
JD9940 supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
It seems you want to go on the complete offensive without understanding why we're doing... what we're doing.

·The 2005 comment wasn't really necessary, I don't understand your allusion.

·We use the matching clothes to show organization, you either get with the program, or you get the **** out. You choose your own fate.

·We're not looking for sponsors, we declined two, and only accepted the Davis Paintball sponsorship. Why do you think our remake is so expensive?

·And we're not really out of money before we hit the field, I don't know about the rest of the paintballers around here, but I can hold my own end, fundwise.

The 320 is really just an estimate, without the organization and the wallet-slapper, a lot of the team won't even considering taking it seriously. Good things need investing, it's time for people to understand that. It's not so much throwing 320 down on the table RIGHT THERE, you could ease your way into it, the large amount of money is showing the commitment really.

It's much more than just having stuff to wear, it's showing your team is organized, the team isn't a bunch of slackers shooting their friends in the ***, if we don't get organized, we don't get serious. Understand?
you just said you lost one player due to the lack of funds
this really isnt 2005, i see more teams where no one matches, a single piece of gear and they have great team chemistry. and if you're gonna play D4 (a ranking you arent even sure you're up to par with) with an admittedly ****ty roster matching clothes wont help
turning own the Redz deal wasnt so bright IMO, since they'll sponsor anybody with a computer and give you discounted gear that matches (something that seems so important to you)

yes, YOU can hold your own financially, but if the rest of your team cant, then YOU should probably look for a new team with players that can spend $300+ for fancy threads
i myself would use that $300 for paint and admission to get BETTER and not care about matching the other guys in the huddle
__________________
GORGEOUS Luxe FS/T


Action Star Games
JD9940 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:53 PM #7
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD9940 View Post
you just said you lost one player due to the lack of funds
this really isnt 2005, i see more teams where no one matches, a single piece of gear and they have great team chemistry. and if you're gonna play D4 (a ranking you arent even sure you're up to par with) with an admittedly ****ty roster matching clothes wont help
turning own the Redz deal wasnt so bright IMO, since they'll sponsor anybody with a computer and give you discounted gear that matches (something that seems so important to you)

yes, YOU can hold your own financially, but if the rest of your team cant, then YOU should probably look for a new team with players that can spend $300+ for fancy threads
i myself would use that $300 for paint and admission to get BETTER and not care about matching the other guys in the huddle
It seems you read it wrong, he was broke, even though we'd give him money all the time, and when he did have money, he wasn't committed.

I guess you're missing what kind of players we are. The last two of us are completely involved with the sport, and if we gain more members, we want them to show they're involved by showing they're commited, this ain't a cheap sport, and it'd only be a matter of time before they have to throw down money for gear. They might as well jump into the game with our outfit.

We turned down the RedZ deal because we decided we'd rather show our team isn't tools and desperate for sponsorships, and we turned down the APS sponsorship because we just weren't interested. We didn't believe in 'third times a charm' either.

And maybe I should look for a new team, but I'd rather see how this one plays out first. I'm the only one in the team with a real job, so I'm moving at a better pace than everyone else. I'm just hoping that the other can catch up before I out-do him. We practice every week, so we're doing fine in terms of spending money on paint and entry.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 03:42 AM #8
JD9940
Forever an AA's Fan
 
JD9940's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
JD9940 supports Cereal Killerz 2
JD9940 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
JD9940 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
JD9940 plays in the APPA D4 division
JD9940 supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
It seems you read it wrong, he was broke, even though we'd give him money all the time, and when he did have money, he wasn't committed.

I guess you're missing what kind of players we are. The last two of us are completely involved with the sport, and if we gain more members, we want them to show they're involved by showing they're commited, this ain't a cheap sport, and it'd only be a matter of time before they have to throw down money for gear. They might as well jump into the game with our outfit.

We turned down the RedZ deal because we decided we'd rather show our team isn't tools and desperate for sponsorships, and we turned down the APS sponsorship because we just weren't interested. We didn't believe in 'third times a charm' either.

And maybe I should look for a new team, but I'd rather see how this one plays out first. I'm the only one in the team with a real job, so I'm moving at a better pace than everyone else. I'm just hoping that the other can catch up before I out-do him. We practice every week, so we're doing fine in terms of spending money on paint and entry.
ah i didnt understand you guys were giving him money
but honestly from what you're telling us, you really should take yourself and the other player who you say is committed and talented enough for tourny ball, and just join another team for the time being. get an idea of what it's like to play a whole season, factor in the costs, time, and energy it takes from you, and you will be able to determine who's ready to join your own team NEXT year. take this season as a learning experience and hold off on starting your own team this year
__________________
GORGEOUS Luxe FS/T


Action Star Games
JD9940 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 06:38 AM #9
NoelyDeezNutz
Rebel against
 
NoelyDeezNutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Westchester, NY
NoelyDeezNutz plays in the USPL
NoelyDeezNutz plays in the PSP
NoelyDeezNutz owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
NoelyDeezNutz owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
NoelyDeezNutz is a top reviewer
you guys turned down sponsorships that you applied for...

if you weren't interested, why even apply for them?

the LAST thing you should be worrying about is "ok... i have to make sure we all match and look like a team!" Worry about GETTING A TEAM... work on matching later...

as for the "i just want to have the same jersey, pants, mask, pack, the rest they can do whatever they'd like" so you can shoot any gun, hopper, tank, barrel... and wear any headwrap or gloves you'd like... but the rest of the stuff, is pre-determined.

What if people truly don't like wearing the gear you decide on? Say you chose E-vents for a mask... and I wanted to be apart of the team... I won't go buy a pair of E-vents just to play with you guys... infact, i'd probably tell you guys to get lost if you even ASKED me to. (as most people would)

Get your priorities straight long before you worry about looking like a matching team.
__________________
Killing for the Hungry Fat Chicks
I support: PBChic, Planet Eclipse & Understood
SameBIG CHIEF - I've met plenty of tools who own a Luxe. Looks like they failed on the tool less aspect.
NoelyDeezNutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 09:02 AM #10
jon1985
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
I agree with what most people are saying. It is far more important to have a good team that is dependable, and good before everyone looks nice. If something has to match maybe you and your other player should split and get enough jerseys for a whole team and rent them to your players on the day of the tourny. I am playing RXL this season and we have matching jerseys because its a CXBL league and they provide us with one from our players fee. The team owner has asked that each line wears the same pants as the rest of the line, same make and colour. But after that we wear whatever we want and shoot what we want. Until you are good enough to get full gear sponsors it may be to much to ask everyone to match especially as people have their own taste in gear.
Just my 2 cents.
jon1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 08:12 PM #11
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelyDeezNutz View Post
you guys turned down sponsorships that you applied for...

if you weren't interested, why even apply for them?

the LAST thing you should be worrying about is "ok... i have to make sure we all match and look like a team!" Worry about GETTING A TEAM... work on matching later...

as for the "i just want to have the same jersey, pants, mask, pack, the rest they can do whatever they'd like" so you can shoot any gun, hopper, tank, barrel... and wear any headwrap or gloves you'd like... but the rest of the stuff, is pre-determined.

What if people truly don't like wearing the gear you decide on? Say you chose E-vents for a mask... and I wanted to be apart of the team... I won't go buy a pair of E-vents just to play with you guys... infact, i'd probably tell you guys to get lost if you even ASKED me to. (as most people would)

Get your priorities straight long before you worry about looking like a matching team.
We didn't know what they had to offer, but we weren't looking for free or inexpensive gear, we just didn't like what they offered.

Our team pre-decided what we wanted. The newcomers will get their own share, we haven't fully determined what we've wanted apart from the mask which was the Vlocity Profiler, which you can customize as you see fit, and the jersey which we're going to vote for the design that I've been working on for a few days. The team is more democracy than tyranny, everyone gets their share and say, and so far the old members would prefer to be organized FIRST then play, because we can afford to do both.

Our priorities ARE straight. This is what we wanted, this is what we're doing. We're not your everyday, ordinary, template-based team with an all-star roster and a three-thousand dollar spot in their wallet.

And I like the idea of us just going to join another team... but in our region we don't know if a team would put up with me and the others stupid ideas.

It's time to understand we haven't really bought anything yet [I bought the Profiler because it's sexy], so things are still up for debate. But matching gear is where this team is headed eventually.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.

Last edited by Everto : 03-23-2009 at 08:17 PM.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 08:29 PM #12
Ionic Moron
Al Gore Raped My Igloo
 
Ionic Moron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 306, Canada
Ionic Moron helped look for balloons
Ionic Moron owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
Ionic Moron supports Team VICIOUS
I remember your video's...they made me lol.

I suggest the two of you try to find an existing team, trust me it's ALOT easier than trying to start your own, I've been fortunate enough to be the team captain of 4 failed teams, but the 2 of us that remained joined up with our current team and well, ****'s alot easier because we have guys who've played together for over a decade so no one's going to up and leave, so find an already existing team.

As for matching gear, don't go nuts. For rookie, maybe just get matching jerseys or longsleeves so you can tell who's who on the field. No need for a full set up and definately no need for personalized stuff.

I'll talk to a few people and see if I can't find you guys a paint sponsor or something if you want. PM me.
Ionic Moron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 06:55 PM #13
PaintballBenny
how you ding
 
PaintballBenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
[size="3"]



Since December we've obtained a sponsorship from Davis Paintball in Sacramento, where we only get the basics such as Free Air.
doesnt sound like a sponsorship to me (or at least not a very good one). i get free air every time i step onto the field.
PaintballBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 10:44 PM #14
Everto
C://TeamCT/restore.exe
 
Everto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintballBenny View Post
doesnt sound like a sponsorship to me (or at least not a very good one). i get free air every time i step onto the field.
Well, free compressed air, how about that?

And I listened to Ionic's idea, and only have the Mask & Jersey matching.
Vlocity Profiler, and we're going with Ionic's suggestion of taking his jersey creator, which costs like 34 bucks.

So now it's only around 110 dollars, cool.

So far Ionic is the only person to provide any real help in this thread.
__________________
I shoot at Davis and Sherwood in California for Team Conspiracy Theory.
Everto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 02:12 AM #15
cole5073
 
 
cole5073's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
Well, free compressed air, how about that?

And I listened to Ionic's idea, and only have the Mask & Jersey matching.
Vlocity Profiler, and we're going with Ionic's suggestion of taking his jersey creator, which costs like 34 bucks.

So now it's only around 110 dollars, cool.

So far Ionic is the only person to provide any real help in this thread.

I've been lurking this thread, and with this last statement I feel like you either:
A) Looking for sponsors
B) Looking for places to get matching clothing made
C) Looking for suggestions on practical acquiring of matching clothing
but, it doesn't seem to me like you are really looking at the help that other people are trying to give you. As most people are trying to tell you, you don't need, and shouldn't have the high expense you feel shows, "commitment". From what I gather in your posts, you have tried to get people to join the team who don't have any real tournament experience, or at least, long term experience. You can't expect these people to be committed straight away and you certainly can't expect them to be willing to drop large amounts of money on something they may not even enjoy. The way to get people committed, isn't to burden them with an financial commitment, but rather, to get them to enjoy being a part of your team, a fact I think you've sacrificed for organization.

To answer your question, No, you shouldn't try to get more people, as the people you get from the high school will be of the same caliber, if not more naive, than those you have tried to acquire in the past, with no luck.

Side Note: (pre)Teenage angst, isn't really the best way to invite people to give you suggestions...
__________________
President of the University of Oklahoma Cycling Team

"The 48/45 will hold a total of 216,000lbs of air (48ci x 4500psi)
Where as the 68/3k will hold 204,000lbs, unless I botched my math."

Apparently I can lift a 100 ton tank of air...

"This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between searches. Please try again in 56 seconds."--Forum (wtf?)
cole5073 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 05:20 PM #16
PaintballBenny
how you ding
 
PaintballBenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everto View Post
Well, free compressed air, how about that?
i hope you're joking
PaintballBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 06:00 PM #17
P8NTBALLR.ru
Molotovsoda
 
P8NTBALLR.ru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: princeton NJ
this thread made me lol...
P8NTBALLR.ru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 09:45 PM #18
-SLY-
ABSOLUTE
 
-SLY-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MN
tryout for a real team
-SLY- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 03:49 AM #19
Drowning In My Sleep
< HAWTNESS
 
Drowning In My Sleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Drowning In My Sleep helped look for balloons
Drowning In My Sleep plays in the APPA D4 division
If you don't think that other teams will be able to put up with your stupid ideas if you go tryout with them, what makes you think all the new players on YOUR team will as well?


And as Cole said, you're too firm in your decisions. EVERYONE is telling you that matching stuff isn't very practical, expensive for others and drives everyone on the team away but you still feel like you HAVE to do it despite the fact that you said that your team is pretty broke.


And to answer the question in red: YOU shouldn't spend time trying to get people into this expensive sport by having new players on your team pay for stuff that they already have. Why don't you spend your time KEEPING people in this expensive sport rather than driving them away?


ps. its a ****ing VFORCE profiler, not a VLOCITY profiler.
__________________
HoLeeSheet.444 <- SCII

Goodbye mom. You were a great mom and an even better friend. I love you mom.
Drowning In My Sleep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:58 AM #20
Army_Ranger2888
im not in the army
 
Army_Ranger2888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Army_Ranger2888 supports Cereal Killerz 2
Army_Ranger2888 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drowning In My Sleep View Post
If you don't think that other teams will be able to put up with your stupid ideas if you go tryout with them, what makes you think all the new players on YOUR team will as well?


And as Cole said, you're too firm in your decisions. EVERYONE is telling you that matching stuff isn't very practical, expensive for others and drives everyone on the team away but you still feel like you HAVE to do it despite the fact that you said that your team is pretty broke.


And to answer the question in red: YOU shouldn't spend time trying to get people into this expensive sport by having new players on your team pay for stuff that they already have. Why don't you spend your time KEEPING people in this expensive sport rather than driving them away?


ps. its a ****ing VFORCE profiler, not a VLOCITY profiler.

Haha I was just about to say that. Hes right why would you expect team members to put up with your "stupid" ideas?

Organization doesn't come with matching clothes, it comes with the ability to have a team with team members that actually show up and want to be on a team.

It seems to me the people you are trying to get to team up with you and your friend obviously don't have same passion and commitment it takes to play tournament paintball. Your going to have to find people with the drive and personality to commit to what your asking.

And yes, I guess you could try and to recruit kids out of your school with no experience but I doubt you would have much success.
Army_Ranger2888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 12:11 PM #21
B4N3
 
 
B4N3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 734/810
-Before spending another penny, sit down and discuss where you want to take this team.

-I wouldn't recommend taking all new inexperienced players and attempting to have them play at the level you are on unless they are extremely devoted to practice and learning.

-Find a good coach that will bring you to the level you desire to play at.

-Hold another tryout, encourage out of town players to come tryout.

-practice, practice, drill, drill, practice.

-scrimmage teams better than you, you will improve when you learn the mistakes you make and correct them. Trust me the best way to get better is to get annihilated then recap and see what went wrong in that situation.
__________________
set aside from the majority I will serve as an example to man as hope By defending those I love with my life I stand here bold and strong As a testament to my abstinence My heart is open; this slate is clean.
B4N3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump