Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-19-2009, 07:19 PM #1
shortguydave
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Exclamation please critique my god argument!!!

I'm too lazy to put this in proper deductive form, but her it goes.

If god is omniscient, he can see all things that will ever happen in the course of history.

In order for an action to utilize free will, it must not be predetermined to occur.

Therefore, if god sees all things before they happen 100% of the time, free will does not exist, because god has know accurately that the action would occur before anyone could ever think to do it.

again, i know i have to work on the form, but what do you guys think?
__________________
"Dave sets the bar high, then he gets you in an arm bar, then he **** you down some stairs; trust me, I know." -OPM
shortguydave is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:21 PM #2
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
k?
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:23 PM #3
shortguydave
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
k?
just llokin for any suggestions, or if anyone sees any holes in it. im writing a paper due tuesday so im just lookin for suggestions
__________________
"Dave sets the bar high, then he gets you in an arm bar, then he **** you down some stairs; trust me, I know." -OPM
shortguydave is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:30 PM #4
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
you're writing a paper on that?

There are a lot of different ways to interpret the word "omniscient" depending on context. If you take your stance that God created the universe and God knows everything that happens/happened/will happen, then yes, you're bound by determinism.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:35 PM #5
shortguydave
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
you're writing a paper on that?

There are a lot of different ways to interpret the word "omniscient" depending on context. If you take your stance that God created the universe and God knows everything that happens/happened/will happen, then yes, you're bound by determinism.
yea, and im using the christian definition of omniscient. i know its not particularly out there or anything, but i think it raises some questions. also, its mostly just to practice creating arguments.
__________________
"Dave sets the bar high, then he gets you in an arm bar, then he **** you down some stairs; trust me, I know." -OPM
shortguydave is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:47 PM #6
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortguydave View Post
yea, and im using the christian definition of omniscient. i know its not particularly out there or anything, but i think it raises some questions. also, its mostly just to practice creating arguments.
no you're not. you're using a argument. There is more than one way to view what the Bible says on the subject, and I'm currently reading through it seeing how Open Theism fits.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:49 PM #7
shortguydave
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
no you're not. you're using a argument. There is more than one way to view what the Bible says on the subject, and I'm currently reading through it seeing how Open Theism fits.
okay, how would a christian define omniscience?
__________________
"Dave sets the bar high, then he gets you in an arm bar, then he **** you down some stairs; trust me, I know." -OPM
shortguydave is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:58 PM #8
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortguydave View Post
okay, how would a christian define omniscience?
you can't group them all together like that. That's how I would respond. There are at least 3 different major views that I can think of, and an infinite number of other views. Why not just wiki the question? I'm sure its a great place to start.

Above all, The Bible is about a personal relationship with God. So if you're going to talk about "the christian perspective", what the Bible instructs you to do is read it and gain your understanding from it. You want to know what a christian might think about omniscience? Read the Bible, and see what you take away from it, there ya go.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:59 PM #9
wavesport001
 
 
wavesport001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The River
That depends on what sect of Christianity they subscribe.
__________________
"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." -Thomas Jefferson

"it really doesnt matter what you say on here. if there was truly evidence, it would come from a professor, not from a member on pbnation.com." - Anonymous poster
wavesport001 is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:01 PM #10
shortguydave
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
for the record, im agnostic, but im arguing against a roman catholic perspective that god is all knowing and all powerful
__________________
"Dave sets the bar high, then he gets you in an arm bar, then he **** you down some stairs; trust me, I know." -OPM
shortguydave is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:03 PM #11
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortguydave View Post
for the record, im agnostic, but im arguing against a roman catholic perspective that god is all knowing and all powerful
The only problem with that is if we also have free will. If you don't believe that, there's no conflict.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:04 PM #12
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsilman View Post

Above all, The Bible is about a personal relationship with God.
no, no it is not.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:05 PM #13
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
no, no it is not.
uhh..ok.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:12 PM #14
warbeak2099
That is my foot!
 
warbeak2099's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Wouldn't u like to know!
 has been a member for 10 years
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2863852

I suggest you post there and close this before you get a 3 day temp ban.
__________________
US Navy Baller
UL'd 07 PMR F/S, PM me if interested!
#12 Italian Baller
“The real test of a man is not how well he plays the role he has invented for himself, but how well he plays the role that destiny assigned to him.”
-Václav Havel
warbeak2099 is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:14 PM #15
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
oh yeah, school help. forgot about that

mah bad
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:15 PM #16
nflvikings
It's fizzix.
 
nflvikings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Illinois
nflvikings is a Forum Captain
Post in warbeak's link for school help.
__________________
Old Feedback
nflvikings is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump