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Old 02-26-2009, 08:05 PM #1
bamdirtbike11
 
 
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open/closed bolt

what is the diffrence between open and closed bolts?
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:21 PM #2
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In a closed bolt marker, the bolt is forward (past the feedneck) before you pull the trigger, then moves backward when you pull the trigger. In an open bolt marker, the bolt is backward (you can see the bottom of the breech) before you pull the trigger, then moves forward when you pull the trigger.

A common misconception is that all guns with a bolt fully enclosed inside the body (such as a Dye Matrix) is a closed bolt gun and any gun with an externally visible bolt (such as Intimidators or Egos) is an open bolt gun.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:27 PM #3
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He pretty much said it all...

But I do have a bit to add.

An open bolt (normally) will be more consistant than a closed bolt because it does not rely on the air pressure to move it. Most open bolts will have a spring system to make the bolt move and most will not be solely relied on o-rings to hold back air.

A closed bolt will normally be less consistant because most will rely on air pressure to move the bolt. The nice thing about closed bolts though is that they can be "customized" easier and the whole bolt comes out in 1 piece.

Any disputes, LMK. I have said the wrong things in threads. lol
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:39 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoBOI878 View Post
He pretty much said it all...

But I do have a bit to add.

An open bolt (normally) will be more consistant than a closed bolt because it does not rely on the air pressure to move it. Most open bolts will have a spring system to make the bolt move and most will not be solely relied on o-rings to hold back air.

A closed bolt will normally be less consistant because most will rely on air pressure to move the bolt. The nice thing about closed bolts though is that they can be "customized" easier and the whole bolt comes out in 1 piece.

Any disputes, LMK. I have said the wrong things in threads. lol
Most open bolts do not rely on a spring to reposition the bolt back in a resting state, most open bolts (egos/timmys) they do infact use air to return the bolt.

An open bolt can be customized just as easy as a closed bolt. Many times the process of adding "upgrades" is easier done on an open bolt.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:41 PM #5
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Also, there are different types of open/closed bolts
this includes: open unenclosed (bolt is outside of gun/behind breach)
open enclosed (bolt is inside gun/behind breach)
closed unenclosed (bolt outside of gun/before breach)
Closed enclosed (Bolt inside of gun/before breach)

Sounds wierd...but thats how its broken down
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:47 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoBOI878 View Post
He pretty much said it all...

But I do have a bit to add.

An open bolt (normally) will be more consistant than a closed bolt because it does not rely on the air pressure to move it. Most open bolts will have a spring system to make the bolt move and most will not be solely relied on o-rings to hold back air.

A closed bolt will normally be less consistant because most will rely on air pressure to move the bolt. The nice thing about closed bolts though is that they can be "customized" easier and the whole bolt comes out in 1 piece.

Any disputes, LMK. I have said the wrong things in threads. lol

completely wrong.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:55 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoBOI878 View Post
He pretty much said it all...

But I do have a bit to add.

An open bolt (normally) will be more consistant than a closed bolt because it does not rely on the air pressure to move it. Most open bolts will have a spring system to make the bolt move and most will not be solely relied on o-rings to hold back air.

A closed bolt will normally be less consistant because most will rely on air pressure to move the bolt. The nice thing about closed bolts though is that they can be "customized" easier and the whole bolt comes out in 1 piece.

Any disputes, LMK. I have said the wrong things in threads. lol
If I am not mistaken, by consistency you mean over the chronograph right?

Well there is a common misconception not necesarily related to consistency. There is no difference in accuracy generally. The only time i have found a closed bolt to be absolutely superior to an open is when playing pump. When you fire there is no mass moving in a cocker since the ball is fired with air power. The gun is recocked manually thus making it essentially kickless. Otherwise both open and closed bolt guns will have kick due to recocking. The only reason a closed bolt could be generally more accurate is due to paint to barrel match. The bolt pushes the ball into the barrel, making the ball stuck in the barrel, creating a perfect seal for the air to push it out. This does not happen with open bolt guns, since they have detents preventing roll outs. Overboring leads to less accuracy (as i have found, this is debateable), while a perfect paint-bore size match (which must be had to prevent rollouts with a closed bolt gun) will be more accurate.

-I hope that helps, ask away if either I nor anyone else answered any of your questions
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:11 PM #8
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thanks that answered my question
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:25 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevets11_2003 View Post
Most open bolts do not rely on a spring to reposition the bolt back in a resting state, most open bolts (egos/timmys) they do infact use air to return the bolt.

An open bolt can be customized just as easy as a closed bolt. Many times the process of adding "upgrades" is easier done on an open bolt.
wow no youre thinking of exposed bolts where you can see the bolt on the outside of the gun open bolts are guns that have the bolt in backposition before the ball is in the breach whereas closed bolts have the bolt forward before the ball is in the breach it sounds dumb its explaind better a few posts up i htink idr by who though

example pretty much all todays guns are openbolts egos dms pms etc where as a closed bolt would b a pump gun (best exapmle i can think of right now)
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:35 PM #10
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egos and timmies are both open bolts as well.
and those that rely on the springs to put the bolt back in place are called FASOR markers(forward air spring operated return)
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:38 PM #11
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Yep, the important thing to know about open/closed bolt guns is that unless you plan to tinker or modify how your gun works.... you don't need to care.

It makes no difference in how 'good' the gun will be for you in anyway. There are crappy open and closed bolt guns and there are great open and closed bolt guns.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:43 PM #12
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most enclosed bolts are spool valve(notice i say enclose) and open bolts(ego\timmys ect.) are poppet valve and sometimes have QEV(s) to return the bolt back to be ready to be fired again
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:22 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coochiehead444 View Post
most enclosed bolts are spool valve(notice i say enclose) and Exposed bolts(ego\timmys ect.) are poppet valve and sometimes have QEV(s) to return the bolt back to be ready to be fired again
Fixed it for you.



It really surprises me how many people get this simple question wrong when it is asked. to all the guys that know the correct info.

FOR THOSE WHO DONT KNOW HERE ARE SOME ANIMATIONS!!

Ok here is a animation of a regular autococker that is a CLOSED bolt system. This means that the bolt is closed (forward) when at rest. Watch as the trigger is pulled the bolt is already forward, it fires, then it moves back to reload, then back forward to the rest position.





Next we have two different versions of a OPEN bolt system, a automag and two spyder based markers. This means the bolt is open (back) when at rest. Notice how the bolt is back in the animations, the trigger is pulled, the bolt goes forwards and fires, then returns back to reload at the rest position.








I hope this clears some of the confusion up...
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:21 AM #14
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those animations are the coolest! do you have the original links?

(and yes, its the little things that make life so good!)
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:08 AM #15
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ok..sorry...
i'm totally blur
which one is angel A1?
sorry
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:11 AM #16
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enclosed open bolt
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:15 AM #17
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thanx
and which diagram would that be for the a1?
i know a1 has dual chambers,but i mean,which is the closest to it?
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:37 AM #18
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I don't have one for the A1, but here is one for a slightly older angel. Although one of the chambers has changed in the A1, it's not much different.

Again, none of this matters other than for maintenance, ALL high end guns properly maintained will be nearly equal in performance, but here ya go.

All these Animations btw come from a GREAT site that should be properly given credit:

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations

Angel:

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Old 02-28-2009, 12:51 AM #19
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Quote:
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thanx
and which diagram would that be for the a1?
i know a1 has dual chambers,but i mean,which is the closest to it?
while the angels have 3 tubes, they work pretty similar to a timmy/ego. while ive never had the chance to own one, i think its just the ram/lpr/bolt all have their own tubes basically.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:36 AM #20
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ahh thanx for the information!
appreciate it...
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