Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-31-2009, 10:55 PM #337
xXxGONZALESxXx
 
 
xXxGONZALESxXx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: OKLAHOMA
xXxGONZALESxXx plays in the APPA D4 division
l4....
edge army 1st
I-40 kids 2nd
us 3rd
outcast 4th
__________________
♥Rittle Ronery Boy!♥
xXxGONZALESxXx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 05-31-2009, 10:57 PM #338
shocker4life03
OKC Militia
 
shocker4life03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Da *405*
shocker4life03 plays in the PSP
shocker4life03 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
shocker4life03 supports Team VICIOUS
shocker4life03 has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by UneaK View Post
placings for L1 and L2?
L2
Midwest Militia Gold
Storm Silver
EA Threat
Bangkok
M Dubya A
Omen

L1
Senate
Storm Gold
Storm

correct me if im wrong but i think thats how it broke down.
__________________
shocker4life03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2009, 10:59 PM #339
UneaK
Veni Vidi Vici
 
UneaK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MW Army
UneaK plays in the PSP
UneaK owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
UneaK supports Team VICIOUS
UneaK plays in the APPA D4 division
thanks
UneaK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2009, 11:35 PM #340
Tim@Kick'n
Kick'n Paintball Park
 
Tim@Kick'n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MO
Tim@Kick'n plays in the PSP
Tim@Kick'n plays in the APPA D1 division
Storm gold in L1 got 4th. Kickn Factory got 2nd.
__________________
-----KICK'N PAINTBALL PARK-----
R.I.P. WIGGLZ
AC402.COM AC:DALLAS
GI SPORTZ--AC402.COM--GI VISION--EXALT--V FORCE--PLANET ECLIPSE
KICKNPAINTBALLPARK.COM
Tim@Kick'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:07 AM #341
ultranoobify
Little spoon for life.
 
ultranoobify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 7 H8 5
ultranoobify owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
i have to say this was a good event the reffs were amazing, everything was organized very well, and the fields were also set up well (thank you grass lol)
to the reffs, you guys all made great calls, you caught a lot of cheating machine guns, hot shooters, called people before they could wipe, and checked people when asked
to the employees of pcoc, you guys are doing a great job with your field. the staging area was nice the playing grass was even nicer and the bunkers/netting were well cared for very well
to dan, you did a great job with organizing this event. im looking forward to event 3
thank you to everybody
__________________
ELITESPORTS OT
The only original OT team
ultranoobify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 12:09 PM #342
sam_sucks_crew
texas storm=b*tches
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultranoobify View Post
i have to say this was a good event the reffs were amazing, everything was organized very well, and the fields were also set up well (thank you grass lol)
to the reffs, you guys all made great calls, you caught a lot of cheating machine guns, hot shooters, called people before they could wipe, and checked people when asked
to the employees of pcoc, you guys are doing a great job with your field. the staging area was nice the playing grass was even nicer and the bunkers/netting were well cared for very well
to dan, you did a great job with organizing this event. im looking forward to event 3
thank you to everybody
it was a great field and everything but the reffing sucked i have never seen such bad calls on so many different games plus both the head reffs were a** holes that wouldnt even listen to the team captains... i saw more than one player get called out on bunker rub and i saw several times a certain team getting hits wiped off (and yes its hits with shell not rub) by reffs which is BS... but to DAN and TIM u guys did a great job its not ur guys fault that the field got bad reffs that didnt know any of the rules
sam_sucks_crew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 12:54 PM #343
ophooligan
Avid Death Squad
 
ophooligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Moore, OK
 has been a member for 10 years
ophooligan has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Here are a few of my observations about the event on Sunday. The judging was okay. This can be improved fairly easily though. It’s great that the MPS has the same ultimate ref at all the events. He has the knowledge of the rules and teams that play the events. However, he is handicapped by not knowing or working with the majority of the referees and head refs on the field. The hosting field can toss any retard they would like on the field and call them a ref. This leads to calls at every event being inconsistent and sometimes contrary to the current rule book. I feel the MPS needs to add two field head judges that go to each event with the same knowledge of the rules and competence that the ultimate has. This will lead to better, more consistent calls in the series. Plus, they will be able to coach and place and the rest of the refs on the field to help eliminate some of the mistakes that are clearly preventable. Also, one thing I would like to see is the ultimate on the field more during games so he can take a look at the job that some of the guys in black and white shirts are doing. Ref #99 on field one worked his crack off. Others did not, but if he was on the field a little more during games he might be able to notice and make corrections. With that said, I only talked with him twice on Sunday so maybe he was and I just wasn’t around that those times. Like it was previously stated, there were a few players pulled on obvious rub. It happens, but it seemed like it happened more than it should. What I did notice was a lack of respect for the players by the head judges. Mistakes happen, calls are missed or blown, it’s your job as a head judge to listen to the concern of the team captain and address it. Maybe the captain didn’t see what you did, fine let him know. Maybe the ref did make a mistake. Fine, let them know that too. Then talk to the ref, explain where they messed up and move on. You run that field; the other guys out there are your responsibility. Saying “shut up, get in the dead box” does not make your or the event look good. This is another reason to get two additional head judges on staff.

A couple thoughts on some rule changes.
1. Unobvious hits should be a 1 for 1. As a player, if I know I’m hit in the pack or tank what do I risk by continuing to play? Nothing. I can go down field and shoot as many people as I want and not be penalized. The current rule does nothing to keep me honest.
2. Swing points for hanging the flag with a hit. The current rule states that if you hang the flag with a hit and your team has a clean player you still get credit for the hang. If you don’t have another live player, neither team is awarded points for the hang. I feel the penalty that should have been assessed during the game should be assessed now. So, if I hang the flag with an obvious hit, I am eliminated, and a 1 for 1 should be pulled. If my team doesn’t have another live player, the flag hang should be awarded to the opposing team. The reason the opposing team should get the hang is because if I the penalty were pulled during play, they would still have a live player to hang the flag.
Discussions, thoughts? Go!
__________________
Jeremy Martin
ophooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:10 PM #344
1w00d
EA OG
 
1w00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: *316*
1w00d plays in the PSP
1w00d supports Team VICIOUS
1w00d supports Team VICIOUS
1w00d plays in the APPA D4 division
Thanks again to Dan for all his hard work with the MPS. PCOC is a very nice paintball facility.
__________________
THE EDGE Bob Long WichitaPaintball.com
AC THREAT
1w00d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:15 PM #345
GrumpyPBer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
this event was a blast thanks to everyone who worked on putting this event on.
GrumpyPBer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:26 PM #346
MPS_Dan
Midwest Paintball Series
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Thanks for your comments. I respect everything you had to say and I will presume a lot of people will get on here and post similar stores. I'm not going to respond to every post but I will post now with a general agreement with you (and future posts) that reffing on Sunday had some issues. The reffing crew was short handed from the beginning and there were no back ups to move/replace those areas that were not as experienced.

On your comments, Tim and I on the way home talked in great detail about the swing vote, hanging the flag with a dirty hit, etc... and I can guarentee you something that the rule will be modified before the next event. We couldn't change the rulling at the spurt of the moment over the weekend because there are too many "what if's" that came up. So Tim and I will continue to cover all our bases and try to come up with the best fixt for this situation.

Lets not spend a whole lot of time bashing the reffing because like you said, not all the reffs were bad. it was a combination of the low number of reffs and some of those reffs being inexperienced with this level of play. I'm looking at the positives in all this and have learned a few things that I will start implementing with the host fields behind the scenes to hopefully prevent this from happening again in future events.

I do what to thank all those who participated in this event and many thanks to Hank and PCOC for hosting the event. Very nice set up
__________________
Dan
MPS_Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:40 PM #347
ultranoobify
Little spoon for life.
 
ultranoobify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 7 H8 5
ultranoobify owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ophooligan View Post
2. Swing points for hanging the flag with a hit. The current rule states that if you hang the flag with a hit and your team has a clean player you still get credit for the hang. If you don’t have another live player, neither team is awarded points for the hang. I feel the penalty that should have been assessed during the game should be assessed now. So, if I hang the flag with an obvious hit, I am eliminated, and a 1 for 1 should be pulled. If my team doesn’t have another live player, the flag hang should be awarded to the opposing team. The reason the opposing team should get the hang is because if I the penalty were pulled during play, they would still have a live player to hang the flag.
Discussions, thoughts? Go!
word
__________________
ELITESPORTS OT
The only original OT team
ultranoobify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 01:44 PM #348
ophooligan
Avid Death Squad
 
ophooligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Moore, OK
 has been a member for 10 years
ophooligan has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Thank you Dan, I hope everyone appreciates how open you are to feedback.
__________________
Jeremy Martin
ophooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 02:17 PM #349
RepN the 417
Virus
 
RepN the 417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St.Louis / 417
RepN the 417 plays in the APPA D4 division
RepN the 417 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS_Dan View Post
Thanks for your comments. I respect everything you had to say and I will presume a lot of people will get on here and post similar stores. I'm not going to respond to every post but I will post now with a general agreement with you (and future posts) that reffing on Sunday had some issues. The reffing crew was short handed from the beginning and there were no back ups to move/replace those areas that were not as experienced.

On your comments, Tim and I on the way home talked in great detail about the swing vote, hanging the flag with a dirty hit, etc... and I can guarentee you something that the rule will be modified before the next event. We couldn't change the rulling at the spurt of the moment over the weekend because there are too many "what if's" that came up. So Tim and I will continue to cover all our bases and try to come up with the best fixt for this situation.

Lets not spend a whole lot of time bashing the reffing because like you said, not all the reffs were bad. it was a combination of the low number of reffs and some of those reffs being inexperienced with this level of play. I'm looking at the positives in all this and have learned a few things that I will start implementing with the host fields behind the scenes to hopefully prevent this from happening again in future events.

I do what to thank all those who participated in this event and many thanks to Hank and PCOC for hosting the event. Very nice set up
Your best bet us to hire a team that will ref the whole series. I felt our reffing wasn't horrible, there are always going to be missed calls, which is fine, and I'm not complaining because it was 20X better than the first event. But I had the same kid pull me for rub on the arm two games in a row. It was the orange allstar and I could absolutely not get the paint off my arm,it stained it pretty bad. Like I said it happens, I am not complaining, just little things like that.

Another heads up, I would suggest to the refs at the beginning of the tournament not to go kick it with 2 specific teams at lunch break. That looks very very bad on your part,what makes it worse is one of the teams one the event in L1 (not saying that's why) but it just looks bad. Overall fun event, Dan and Tim are doing a good job.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
M dubbya A
Wigglz <3
MISSOURI VIRUS
Karnage Paintballs
Paintball-Outpost
RepN the 417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 02:36 PM #350
..TJ..
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Great event Dan and had alot of fun. And I dont know why people are complaining so much about reffing. In every sport and every game no ref is perfect and never will be. Its not the team that gets the best calls that wins but the team that bounces back from the bad ones and can overcome things that go bad that win. I took a bounce off the top of my head and was wearing a stocking hat and it had a red logo on it ref called it as a hit. I was mad but that doesn't decide a tournament.

To the reffs great job.
__________________
Edge Army
..TJ.. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 02:44 PM #351
Malitov
Ready for some pain?
 
Malitov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Elk city, ok
Malitov owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Malitov has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Malitov has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
The reffing was alot better than previous tournaments but it still had something to be desired. I watched one teammate get pulled as he rubbed his hand across the bunker. The ref saw this and still pulled him even though he wasn't being shot at by any of the opposing players. When we explained this to the ref after the game he simply looked at us, shrugged and walked off. This happened two other times sunday and it cost us key points.

I understand what Dan and Tim have to go through to put these events together for us and reffing is just one of those things, but it needs to be improved in some way. Other than a few blatantly bad calls the refs were much better than any previous tournaments i've been to.
__________________
Texas Storm Sunburst G6R

Co-Captain Knights Templar
Malitov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 03:42 PM #352
ego666
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
I played on saturday, Level 3, and the refs on that field were ok, but seemed to be pretty lazy. After the games the mask would come off and they would be talking and just hanging out for the longest time. My team didnt make finals so I had a chance to watch some level 4 games, and the refs on that field seemed like they wanted to be there. They were cleaning the field off between each game, and really never took of there mask. They aslo kept the games rolling really fast.

Sunday I watch all day, field one, those refs seemed like they were one for one crazy. Almost as if they took pride in calling one for one's. I over heard some of them talking, the guys with the umbrellas (sp), they had a bet on who could call the most one for one's. I have never reffed mps but that seems a bit crazy. Field two, those refs seemed on top of things for the most part. Running around checking everyone. Field one seemed to have alot of bad calls, and making everyone mad. Not cleaning the field or anything. Field two had 4 bad calls that i seen. One in which cost kick'n 1st place i think.

All in all good job to everyone
__________________
Paintball is a way of Life
ego666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 03:45 PM #353
MPS_Dan
Midwest Paintball Series
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Getting a full time reffing crew for every event is impossible... we've looked into this many times and Tim and I even looked into it again on Sunday during the event. The reason why it is impossible is because of the cost that people/teams would want to paid for every event. This would more than kill my intake and reduce the fields intake by half. Neither of us is willing/able to do that.

The only problem I see is on Sundays. Saturdays are, in comparison, uneventfull and that is because 3mans are TONS easier to reff than 5mans simply because the pace is much slower and the muber of players is much less.

Regardless if we had a full time reffing crew for every event, two full time head reffs in addition to the ultimate, or whatever we do.... the reffing crew is only as strong as their weekest link. If there are a few bad reff who makes consistant bad calls, the entire event is ruined and the entire reffing staff is made out to look bad. That is what happened yesterday.

Bringing on the ultimate ref has helped tremendously and I greatly appreciate Tim and all that he has done for the series... however, I do agree more needs to be done, I just don't what more can be done.

Too many people compare the MPS with the PSP but fail to understand that the PSP has hundreds of team at every event and they charge thousands of dollars for entry. With that sort of income, I can understand how they are able to have reffing clinics, certify reffs and hire great reffs for their many fields (side note, PSP reffs still make mistakes).

On the flip side, the MPS only brings in dozens of teams and only charges a few hundred dollars for entry. Having reff clinics, certifying reffs and bringing in a that reffing crew to all the events isn't an option.

There is only 1 solution in my opinion that would resolve the problems that the MPS Faces when it comes to the reffing problems on Sundays.... and that solution is GET RID OF LEVEL 1 AND Level 2! I don't want to do this solution but it has crossed my mind.
__________________
Dan
MPS_Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 03:59 PM #354
bunkerkingap1
I-40 Fuel
 
bunkerkingap1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Moore, OK
 has been a member for 10 years
bunkerkingap1 plays in the PSP
bunkerkingap1 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
bunkerkingap1 plays in the APPA D4 division
i thought the majority of the refs on the l3 field were great. they were checking people pretty well and making calls when they needed to be made. there was a couple that were being super refs. they would slide across the field to make up for a ref on the other side of the field that wasn't doing his job. sucks that they had to do it, but to them for going above and beyond. i can only complain about one call all day and that's for both of our l3 teams. that's not bad at all in my opinion
__________________
CSP
bunkerkingap1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 05:04 PM #355
fancher
STORM
 
fancher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Altus, OK
fancher plays in the PSP
fancher helped look for balloons
fancher plays in the APPA D4 division
no team that is reffing a divission that they are playing should be allowed. it can be biased. at the end of the season it could determine the final standings.
__________________
fancher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 05:24 PM #356
MPS_Dan
Midwest Paintball Series
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancher View Post
no team that is reffing a divission that they are playing should be allowed. it can be biased. at the end of the season it could determine the final standings.
by that statement, L3 and L4 players would ref L2 and L1... that is a step backwards, not a step forward.
__________________
Dan
MPS_Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 05:32 PM #357
Buckfrenzy
Turtle Force
 
Buckfrenzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sitting at my desk
Buckfrenzy plays in the PSP
I came to watch the event Sunday, and I ended up reffing on field 2.

We had 3 issues all day where teams felt they needed to argue more than normal after the games. I hate poor reffing, trust me, but if you have 7-8 uncertified guys reffing a 5-man ramping tournament, there will be errors made. IF you want better reffing, shell out $1000+ and go play some PSP 5-man. The problem is, the reffing in those events will leave you wanting as well. Reffing paintball perfectly is impossible.

There were times that we could not watch both sides of a player because someone was being checked. I would have to crawl under paint to be able to see what I needed to see, but I did it. Numbers solve this.

The only real fault I saw was rule confusion. There two specific instances on our field where refs didn't know which penalty to pull, and it seemed that there was some questions even from the head guys. I think time and consistency solves this, but it sucks for the teams that feel they got cheated in the meantime.

Finally, I think MPS should ramp up the "talking after dead" penalty. I saw some very disrespectful players and spectators who were simply allowed to stand there and berate guys for calls they didn't agree with. If you say anything at all after you are dead in a PSP event other than "hit" or out" etc...You automatically receive a penalty, and if you are the last guy, that penalty will carry over to the next game. MPS either needs to enforce the talking rule more, or instate something that keeps the players form making idiots out of themselves.
Buckfrenzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump