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Old 01-27-2009, 10:34 PM #1
Zepulkinator
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Lightbulb Spring bolt mod for the Vibe

Original Spring Bolt Mod for the Shocker. Here is the revised thread:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2953752

Got this off of ******.com from TheAznInvazn. I don't take credit for this but I've done it and haven't had the time to test it. I know that a blackheart will aid you in tuning your marker with this because you need to turn down the dwell in the marker. This is his review of the mod and what he did, I don't own an EOS.

Hello!
I saw a SBM for the Shocker, on PBN, and decided that I would make one for the Ion. I've come to learn that the Lucky stage... stage something had an optional spring that you could use on their bolt, but it would sometimes cause chops because it wouldn't let the ball fall all the way into the breech. The spring I use doesn't do that.

FROM THE SHOCKER SPRING BOLT MOD THREAD:
This is the spring I am using. It is the SILVER medium length spring from this kit:

http://www.paintballgateway.com/trspspkit4pi.html


I decided to purchase a Bob Long Pillow Bolt because of a few reasons.

1. I was messing with my L7 and it died
2. I wanted to be able to shoot the most brittle paint with no problems
3. Even if it made no help with the brittle paint, the pillow acts like an anti-roll-back system, so the paintball sits in front of the eyes every time all the time, and so that the whole issue of paintballs rolling around in the chamber would be resolved as well (thanks Mike!).

So on to the mod and it's improvements:
With my L7 and no Spring Bolt Mod (SBM), it was running well at a dwell of 15 clicks from the bottom.
With the PillowBolt and the Spring Bolt Mod, I was still running strong at 15 clicks! Remember that the Pillow Bolt is almost as heavy as a stock Ion bolt, so this is amazing.




This mod was actually quite simple, and if something bad happened, you could potentially just take the spring off and say that you marker died on its own
I went to my local hardware store, and I saw a package of random springs, and it only cost around $1.50 - $2.00 (can't quite remember, but it was cheap).
Took it home, and I was messing around with the bolt, and I was surprised that one of the springs just barely fit over the tail o-ring on my PillowBolt, a perfect fit!
Took my back cap out, and made sure the bolt would cycle all the way back without any problems, and it did. Stuck everything into my EOS and I was able to lower my dwell to 15 clicks from the bottom!

Easy as Pie!

I'm sure that with a NDZ Skeleton bolt or something that this mod will be beastly (if it doesn't break paint)!

So lets break down the mod into its Pros and Cons.

Pros:
~Any bolt with a tail (sorry any Unicorn, L7, or HollowPoint users) will be able to reduce dwell by an insane amount.
~Will let you use your older bolts without having to spend more than a few cents on a spring instead of buying a whole new bolt!
~Lower dwell meens better efficiency, and lets remember that stock dwell on an Ion is about 48 or so, so getting it down to 15 is amazing for a bolt that weights about as much as a stock Ion bolt.

Cons
~Could perhaps cause you to break more paint since you're using more force on the forward travel of the bolt (the bolt will hit the paintball harder). I haven't had this problem (maybe because of the PillowBolt design?).
~Puts stress on the bolt in a place it wasn't designed to have stress on (the area behind the vents). This could create some potential long term bolt life issues, so I'll just shoot and see what happens

Update 01/22/09
While using my EOS in all my practices and such, I still have no problems with the SBM! The only thing I changes was using the other half of the spring (the spring on the bolt is now much longer, letting me drop my dwell to said 15 clicks (it was higher before). No really problems with breaking paint besides using ultra brittle stuff in the cold, but everyone was breaking paint, so that no real problem, it wasn't breaking paint during the summer.
FSDO is nonexistent as well, the mechanical functioning of the spring negates the requirement of just the air pressure moving the bolt back and forth, so my EOS is kinda like a FASOR design now. No major air pressure is needed to move the bolt forward, only back. This means that any bolt stick is simply overcome by the combination of the pressure the EOS works off (220-250 psi) of in conjunction with the spring always wanting to pushing the bolt forward.

Still don't know if this would work with any other kind of bolt besides the PillowBolt, but maybe someone should let me borrow some Ion style bolts with a tail so I can run more tests.

Explanation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus02 View Post
This mod will not make the marker that much more efficient on air.. Here is why:

You state the reason you believe the marker will be more efficient is because you can lower your dwell setting on the board.

There are 2 ways to look at dwell:
a. the dwell setting at the board.

b. the effective dwell, (how long the bolt remains in a forward enough position that allows the air blast to flow through the bolt to propel the paintball.

While adding the spring allows you to change your board setting. The effective dwell will be about the same.

The dwell timer starts the instant the trigger is pressed. On a stock setup, it takes time for the bolt to move all the way forward, and once it gets forward enough, the larger blast of air can travel through the bolt. Then when the dwell timer expires, the bolt is brought back, but it takes time until the bolt is far enough back to stop the major air blast..

Adding the spring will reduce the time it takes for the bolt to move forward, (sortof like what a QEV would do, because the spring helps push the bolt forward). So the air blast starts sooner. When dwell timer expires, the bolt will be slower to retract, allowing the blast to continue on longer, because the air that pushes the bolt backward has to fight the spring.

This is why you had to reduce the dwell after adding the spring.

Class Dismissed.. (just kidding)

Last edited by Zepulkinator : 03-20-2009 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:59 AM #2
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Huh... Well then that's pretty interesting. Anyone here try this yet? Zepulkinator, definitly let us know how it goes cause I can just imagine a firebolt with the sbm and blackheart

What's your dwell set at? ....
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:36 AM #3
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zomg?
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:00 AM #4
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It will lead to better efficiency from your vibe if you have a blackheart board.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:45 PM #5
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But will it turn it into an axe? chopping balls
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:08 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaCreator View Post
But will it turn it into an axe? chopping balls
Well, if you don't put a heavy spring in there it shouldn't. You know when your vibe is out of air and the bolt stays forward a little bit? The spring should put it at about the same length away from the resting area. Don't use a heavy spring when you do this mod, use a light one and cut it.
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:17 PM #7
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zepulk do u have the blakheart?
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:32 PM #8
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nope, I should have it by the end of Feb. though
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:57 PM #9
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mine got here today. Gonna be installed soon then I'll try to find a spring and give this setup a whirl and compare the two
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:03 PM #10
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ok so if the spring is too tense u will be ****ed.....the spring needs to be the perfect length will effect the tension and there for the lack or mass of chopping
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:32 AM #11
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The marker should compensate for the pressure of the spring. It doesn't have to be exact, and unless the paint is really brittle, then it shouldn't break. If a spyder/tippmann can shoot a paintball out at 800psi then this shouldn't be too much pressure for the paint.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:58 AM #12
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See I wouldn't do this without a blackheart. The low pressure of the bolt is the only thing garaunteeing no breakage... But with blackheart and the eyes you should have no problems.... I assume. :-/
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:19 PM #13
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so is it hard to get the perfect spring that isn't too weak or too strong
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Old 01-29-2009, 03:44 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnaStunna View Post
so is it hard to get the perfect spring that isn't too weak or too strong
I don't think so. I have some random *** spring that I used for a pump marker (return spring in the pump handle) and it works fine.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:34 AM #15
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Edited this thread a little. Although the blackheart would be REALLY beneficial because you can change the dwell, it can be done without it. Your basically just eliminating FSDO (if you have First Shot Drop Off) with this mod.

Use the silver medium lenght spring:
http://www.paintballgateway.com/trspspkit4pi.html
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:05 AM #16
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i might do this i already have the blackheart so ill do this and see what happens
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:15 AM #17
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so the spring just slips onto the back of the bolt and the back of the bolt holds it on(where it gets bigger at the end of the bolt where th 0-rings go), but does it also lower your bps i read that it does or does it just depend on the sring you use
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:48 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho91 View Post
so the spring just slips onto the back of the bolt and the back of the bolt holds it on(where it gets bigger at the end of the bolt where th 0-rings go), but does it also lower your bps i read that it does or does it just depend on the sring you use
Ya, but they said it will still do like 18 bps so now worries there.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:01 AM #19
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ok cool iv got of random springs lying around i might do this if i get bored
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:11 PM #20
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This mod will not make the marker that much more efficient on air.. Here is why:

You state the reason you believe the marker will be more efficient is because you can lower your dwell setting on the board.

There are 2 ways to look at dwell:
a. the dwell setting at the board.

b. the effective dwell, (how long the bolt remains in a forward enough position that allows the air blast to flow through the bolt to propel the paintball.

While adding the spring allows you to change your board setting. The effective dwell will be about the same.

The dwell timer starts the instant the trigger is pressed. On a stock setup, it takes time for the bolt to move all the way forward, and once it gets forward enough, the larger blast of air can travel through the bolt. Then when the dwell timer expires, the bolt is brought back, but it takes time until the bolt is far enough back to stop the major air blast..

Adding the spring will reduce the time it takes for the bolt to move forward, (sortof like what a QEV would do, because the spring helps push the bolt forward). So the air blast starts sooner. When dwell timer expires, the bolt will be slower to retract, allowing the blast to continue on longer, because the air that pushes the bolt backward has to fight the spring.

This is why you had to reduce the dwell after adding the spring.

Class Dismissed.. (just kidding)
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:31 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus02 View Post
This mod will not make the marker that much more efficient on air.. Here is why:

You state the reason you believe the marker will be more efficient is because you can lower your dwell setting on the board.

There are 2 ways to look at dwell:
a. the dwell setting at the board.

b. the effective dwell, (how long the bolt remains in a forward enough position that allows the air blast to flow through the bolt to propel the paintball.

While adding the spring allows you to change your board setting. The effective dwell will be about the same.

The dwell timer starts the instant the trigger is pressed. On a stock setup, it takes time for the bolt to move all the way forward, and once it gets forward enough, the larger blast of air can travel through the bolt. Then when the dwell timer expires, the bolt is brought back, but it takes time until the bolt is far enough back to stop the major air blast..

Adding the spring will reduce the time it takes for the bolt to move forward, (sortof like what a QEV would do, because the spring helps push the bolt forward). So the air blast starts sooner. When dwell timer expires, the bolt will be slower to retract, allowing the blast to continue on longer, because the air that pushes the bolt backward has to fight the spring.

This is why you had to reduce the dwell after adding the spring.

Class Dismissed.. (just kidding)
I already knew this but thanks for explaining to the other users. It is much appreciated. I'll add it in the first post.

Last edited by Zepulkinator : 03-20-2009 at 09:34 PM.
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