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Old 02-13-2009, 02:10 AM #379
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Originally Posted by nate4444 View Post
There are a lot of things that just can't be explained. If you do believe in God, your just going to have to accept that you won't know all the answers till we die. You just have to have the faith to beleive the Bible is true.
I agree with this part. True knowledge is impossible, and futile to try to claim. One must realize that there are many things which he/she does not know, until he/she dies.
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He gave us free will so we could choose to love him and serve him instead of forcing us to. What kind of love would that be if we were forced to love. But thats all what I beleive.
What kind of love is allowing for only one correct answer, whereby every other answer is punished by damnation to an eternity of agony? There is nothing to be gained from damning people to hell forever. The reason why parents punish their children is so that their children LEARN and can act right in the future. If the punishment is all encompassing and lasts forever, then nothing may be learned from it. In a sense, God is simply punishing people for the sake of punishment.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:14 AM #380
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There was an eternity before anyone of you were ever born.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:16 AM #381
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There was an eternity before anyone of you were ever born.
How original and insightful.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:17 AM #382
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There was an eternity before anyone of you were ever born.
If there was an eternity before I was born, then wouldn't it take an eternity to arrive at the date of my birth? Following that line of thought, how could such a day have come to pass if we're speaking in infinite time periods? If something is infinite, and you travel along it, you never actually make any progress towards your goal..
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:21 AM #383
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Your just a bunch of energy.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:25 AM #384
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Your just a bunch of energy.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1996957


I'm surprised you still post here.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:30 AM #385
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I forgot about that, that was funny. Who searches for previous post? That's creepy man don't stalk me.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:32 AM #386
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What kind of love is allowing for only one correct answer, whereby every other answer is punished by damnation to an eternity of agony? There is nothing to be gained from damning people to hell forever. The reason why parents punish their children is so that their children LEARN and can act right in the future. If the punishment is all encompassing and lasts forever, then nothing may be learned from it. In a sense, God is simply punishing people for the sake of punishment.
In my belief, God is a perfect God and demands perfection. Since we humans sin, we are no longer perfect. Thats why Jesus had to come and die on the cross, so our sins can be forgiven. His blood covers our sins. That makes us perfect agian. We just have to truly accept it. I believe that everyone in some way or the other will have this shown to them, but its up to them to accept it or not. Everyone has that chance not to be punished forever by being sent to hell which the bible says is like being in a like of fire where the pain never stops.

I also believe as christians, we can be punished for doing wrong just like a parent does to thier kids. I believe its in ways we don't always understand or even realize such as like a accident or something to open up our eyes and get back on track.

This is just what I believe. I'm not trying to shove it on anyone because I know no one likes thier toes stepped on. I'm just proving what I believe is true.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:46 AM #387
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I forgot about that, that was funny. Who searches for previous post? That's creepy man don't stalk me.
It's not like I searched for dirt on you or anything. I posted in that very thread minutes after you posted it, and never forgot your screen name.

And nice trying to shake that one off.
"Haha, oh yeah that was funny... so... anyways...."

You didn't post after that thread for months iirc. Hahaha.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:18 AM #388
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I was never out to prove who was smarter or just as smart. I was just defending the fact that not all Christians or people that beleive in God are uneducated like was said earlier. I will be the first to admit that some of you guys are very smart. I'm sure some of you are smarter than I am. I'm just saying that believing in God has nothing to do with intelligence. That was just a horrible excuse that dude said to try and prove a point. Most of the preacher in churches (or at least most of the ones I have gone to) will tell you to question everything that you hear. Thats including religious stuff. We're not a bunch of mindless zombies that believe everything that is said to us. I agree some people do, but its no different than your normal college student believing every word that comes out of his/her professors mouth. For some people its just easier to believe everything you hear than do any real research for yourself. Any really good christian will not do this just like an really good Atheists will not do with what they believe.

I encourage you guys to try and read through some of stuff on that website. They will do a better job proving stuff about christanity than I will ever have the time for. I just found that site tonight so I haven't gone throught much of it myself. Some of you guys wanted stuff proven to you, thier is the best resource I can give you all.

Lets just keep the insulting of each other down to a minimal and I will discuse this with you all whenever I get a chance.
a good site about Apologetics (which is the scientific study of Christianity) is www.douglasjacoby.com i've heard him speak before and the guy is a walking encyclopedia.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:21 AM #389
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a good site about Apologetics (which is the scientific study of Christianity) is www.douglasjacoby.com i've heard him speak before and the guy is a walking encyclopedia.
not quite.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:21 AM #390
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a good site about Apologetics (which is the scientific study of Christianity) is www.douglasjacoby.com i've heard him speak before and the guy is a walking encyclopedia.
Hindsight is not scientific. Scientific study does not begin with a conclusion which it seeks to prove. Apologetics are the opposite of scientific.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:25 AM #391
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by scientific study i meant archaeological evidence, historical evidence, etc... that what the bible states is true and reasonable.

why couldn't one go out to study what the bible says is true as their hypothesis? then they do their studies to see if the outcome shows their hypothesis was true or not.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:10 AM #392
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by scientific study i meant archaeological evidence, historical evidence, etc... that what the bible states is true and reasonable.

why couldn't one go out to study what the bible says is true as their hypothesis? then they do their studies to see if the outcome shows their hypothesis was true or not.
Because you don't start with a hypothesis. Apologetics begin with the conclusion that the Bible is reasonable according to modern knowledge even though the writers of biblical books were of course not privy to such information. They apply the logic of modern times to ancient culture. That's hindsight, not science. It's also not historical. Historians do NOT employ hindsight, rather they work as hard as they can to expel it from their study of the past.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:31 AM #393
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nate4444, I wasn't trying to belittle you're intelligence. My point is that education causes you to rethink your beliefs. Based on your statements I question whether you've had the kind of education that would cause you to do that. While I believe you may be intelligent enough to understand the truth, you may not have been exposed to it yet.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:25 PM #394
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I believe that everyone in some way or the other will have this shown to them, but its up to them to accept it or not. Everyone has that chance not to be punished forever by being sent to hell which the bible says is like being in a like of fire where the pain never stops.
like aborted and still born babies right?

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why couldn't one go out to study what the bible says is true as their hypothesis? then they do their studies to see if the outcome shows their hypothesis was true or not.
you could claim that as a hypothesis if you wanted to, but we can easily enough bring mountain of evidence disproving said hypothesis.

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Old 02-13-2009, 01:39 PM #395
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nate4444, I wasn't trying to belittle you're intelligence. My point is that education causes you to rethink your beliefs. Based on your statements I question whether you've had the kind of education that would cause you to do that. While I believe you may be intelligent enough to understand the truth, you may not have been exposed to it yet.
I have been exposed to what you think is the truth. I used to believe that thier wasn't a God. So did all of my friends growing up. I didn't grow up in a Christian home like most Christians have. I wasn't around anyone that really was. I came along all of this myself. I used to believe there was no way there was a God because of all the bad things he let happen to me and to others. I probably questioned the same things about God that you do now.

Now that I'm a Christian, its changed my life completly around. I was never happy, I was always depressed. My life was empty. I was going down a road that wasn't a good one. My friends that I hung out with were not the type of people that bring a lot good things to a person's life. Two of those people that I used to hang with OD'd on drugs. That could of been me. But I was able to get out of all of that. I believe there was no way I could of gotten out of that by myself. I believe I got help from God. Mock me if you want, but its what I believe is true.

I can understand why so many people reject the fact that there is a God. I totally do. Some times it would just be easier to believe there wasn't one and live the life that I want to. Sometimes it would be easier to do what ever I wanted. Sometimes it would be easier to believe that I have control over my life and that I can have an effect on the outcome of it. But we were made to serve him and I try my best to do that. Sometimes its hard, sometimes its not but I believe I have been blessed and I know for a fact where I'm going when i die.

I believe that we are all here for a reason. Every person on earth God has a purpose for. Its kind of a mind boggling thing, and people have a hard time grasping that. That why so many don't want to. They hate the fact that they might not have complete control over thier life. I completly get that to. I'm a bit of a control freak. It bugs me when I don't have control of something. But knowing and understanding God has complete control is easy for me to believe.

I'm sure most of you guys have heard this statement before, but I would rather live my life believing thier is a God and be wrong, then be wrong about thier being a God and going to hell. If I do live my life trying to be a good christian and being the best person I can be, whats so wrong with that. Whats wrong with treating people with kindness and respect. Obeying all the laws of our country. Never stealing, lying, killing, raping, or any of the other terrible things people that aren't christian don't do because we believe its wrong. I'm not saying christians don't mess up and do any of those things either. They are still human to and still sin and do wrong, but the majority of actual good christians won't.

Thanks for being a little more civilized this time wavesport001. Thats more like it.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:47 PM #396
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[quote=cockerpunk;56130360]like aborted and still born babies right?

QUOTE]

They have not had the chance to sin yet. Babies don't know about sin or whats right or wrong. I believe that we are all born as sinners because of what happened with Adam and Eve. But a baby doesn't have the chance to sin or even know what sin is until they are a bit older. I couldn't tell you what age that would be. I'm sure its different for each kid. You can always tell though that they know they are doing wrong when they are doing something they know they aren't suppose to. Then thats when they start to sin.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:47 PM #397
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nate4444, I used to be a christian too. I'm not anymore, and I don't steal, kill, rape or any other terrible things. If you ever study science on a postsecondary level you will learn why the beliefs of christianity are largely incompatible with the "truth" (facts supported by hard evidence). Most people don't study science postsecondary level, even those who do go to college. Many people would rather accept the bible because it makes them feel better. The bible gives easy answers that only require some "faith" on the part of the believer. It gives life meaning and purpose, you become part of something. Many people need the support, purpose and guidance that religion provides. Most athiests, for some reason, do not. I attribute it largely to education, but I'm sure upbringing has a huge part to play as well. Many athiests are not evil people, however. They tend to be intelligent, well educated, free thinkers: they are NOT in any "boat" that you have been on!
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:06 PM #398
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Their are things that have been proven be science. They have found fossils of a sharks and sea fish and stuff in the mountians in colorado. They have found chariot wheels of the Egyptians in the bottom of the red sea. Thier are facts out there, but know one hears about them. Plus, they aren't going to publish it in school books because of the whole seperation of church from state deal. I don't think it has anything to do with education. I've had science teacher tell me they believe and God and their is no way the earth was created with out a God.

This a debate that will go on forever. We can both try forever to prove each other wrong. If someone is set in stone on how they beleive, then there is nothing anyone can do to change thier mind.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:08 PM #399
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I was never happy, I was always depressed. My life was empty. I was going down a road that wasn't a good one.
I could say the same thing about when I was a Christian. Christianity didn't help you, finding something you were comfortable with did.

By the way, not believing in God doesn't prevent you from "being a good person". You don't have to be a Christian to be the best person you can be.
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