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Old 12-28-2014, 12:28 AM #1
TRS80
 
 
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B2k Cut Tray - No fancy name yet

Hello,

I want to start by saying; I am 100% invested in this project.

I have a membership with a local community machine shop which allots me access to the needed CNC mills to make this a reality. I have also enrolled in my local community college machinist program for some technical advice and certification. I finished a program to obtain my Air frame and Power plant license this year and after I finish the machinist program I will be transferring to a University to obtain a degree in Flight Science.

Now on to the goodies... Copied from other thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRS80 View Post
Had some down time and designed a Universal "cut" tray. As is; 12mm height, fits the body front to back, utilizes stock ASA screw hole, gauge adapter, switch/led on rear and large enough for a board/noid in the tray. The noid fits on its side and so the body would need M3 barbs added.

Frame was inspired by an OTB but is not a 1:1 copy. Trigger area is slightly larger than a B2k2. Hard mount for trigger switch and will have a battery setup added on at a later date. Not sure what size battery to run.


Not finished with the AutoCad modeling but should have a legit render sooner or later.

Any feedback?











Everything is drawn to scale.
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Last edited by TRS80 : 12-28-2014 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:33 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody609 View Post
Well this should have its own post, first of all.

Now, you considered the inlets for the ram, but forgot the LPR gas channel to get to the noid. Its a fairly large hole, requiring a decent sized barb for it to get to the noid.

The 15 change, does not have enough meat on it to support the ASA. When you angle the adapter, you need to increase the length of the screw. Also, this doesn't take into consideration of possible aftermarket vert adapters and differing screw lengths, as well as angling it. You also have to push it more forward, to better line it up with the access hole there. You would need an oring groove to seal the vert. But even then, i do not thing that having the front of the tray unattached would even work. The only way i would see it wo4king is of you mounted the front, like a Shocktech tray and have a channel from the vert access to the mounting hole for the vert adapter.

3rd, the frame is bleh. Not everyone likes the feel of pure 90 frames. As a universal frame, you would need to be able to fit a plethora of things in it. You also need to take in the wiring, the board and the battery for them. Now if you go with a Kila Drive board(since they are still available new), you need to mount them via the microswitch, which you then need some meat behind the trigger and make sure that you have room for the trigger to move freely & be able to activate the switch without binding.

Now you need a trigger. I am sure that this is a preliminary drawing, but you do need to take in every aspect. If you use already established parts, it makes it easier and cheaper to use as well as give people options.

Now the bigger question is, are you doing this as a excerise in fun or are you serious in tryin to make a small run? Any one item might be cheap, but a tray and frame will be very expensive. I have seen new fully formed frames go for about $180+ each and that was from a guy that did all his own CAD work. That might not even take into prototypes to make sure everything fits and works like it should.

So if you want to talk about this, i can help you. Whether its through specific ICD related talk or even putting you in touch with people who have done this before.
Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to hear.

I will add some more pictures, they should help explain my idea. You are right, this is a proof of concept model. Wanted to see what my mind was thinking.
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Last edited by TRS80 : 12-28-2014 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:33 AM #3
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Now, you considered the inlets for the ram, but forgot the LPR gas channel to get to the noid. Its a fairly large hole, requiring a decent sized barb for it to get to the noid.

Good catch. On my body I will be filling the stock location and drilling a new one. How big a barb we talking M5?


The 15 change, does not have enough meat on it to support the ASA. When you angle the adapter, you need to increase the length of the screw. Also, this doesn't take into consideration of possible aftermarket vert adapters and differing screw lengths, as well as angling it. You also have to push it more forward, to better line it up with the access hole there. You would need an oring groove to seal the vert. But even then, i do not thing that having the front of the tray unattached would even work. The only way i would see it wo4king is of you mounted the front, like a Shocktech tray and have a channel from the vert access to the mounting hole for the vert adapter.

I intended this to be a full tray setup and such would render aftermarket ASA adapters obsolete. I will add some meat to the asa area and add length to accommodate additional thread length for HPA. There will be an oring for the ASA in the CAD model. The stock piece is simply the width of the body so I will just change it to that. The stock ASA screw will be utilized, it will mount vertical inside the angled adapter (see x-ray pics). The lips on the front upper are intended to line up with all B2k bodies.


3rd, the frame is bleh. Not everyone likes the feel of pure 90 frames. As a universal frame, you would need to be able to fit a plethora of things in it. You also need to take in the wiring, the board and the battery for them. Now if you go with a Kila Drive board(since they are still available new), you need to mount them via the microswitch, which you then need some meat behind the trigger and make sure that you have room for the trigger to move freely & be able to activate the switch without binding.

The frame was a quick mock up, I needed perspective. The point to the tray is no special frame will be needed. Only the battery needs to go in the frame. The noid and board will fit in the tray. I do what to make a 45* and 90* frame option though. Bearing triggers, hard mount for the micro switch, etc. I like the Kila idea so I will mock something up for that as well. I still need to experiment with grip ideas, silicone modeled sticky goo? I plan to have one made via 3D printer to test fitment and harness issues.
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:54 PM #4
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The hole for the LPR is fits a 10/32 barb.

Do not forget about space for the wiring. I make harnesses and unless you give extra room for them, you will uave an unusable product. This is where Real life versus mock up means the world.

For grips, base it off an already available product. It gives people an option to use what they want and saves money in the long run. So if they are 45, or UL or whatever. It's basically oen less thing you need to make and worry about.
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:08 PM #5
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What gauge wiring are you using? 18?

That makes sense about the grips, I will pick up a few different one to try out.

I ordered a Kila board so I can mock up a frame that utilizes the board as is. I will also look at removing the micro switch if needed.
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:47 PM #6
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Why not design a new solenoid mounting block and use a mac dev solenoid.. those are side mounted.. easy way to reduce height.. ooooooor, one of those Creed/Demon solenoids! Those have an amazing cycle rate.
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Old 12-31-2014, 01:10 AM #7
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Stock noid is 10mm thick (narrow profile), tray top to bottom is 12mm and the floor of the tray will be about .5mm thick. If we keep the manifold/noid setup, height has to be increased. However moving the noid closer to the trigger frame recess may work. I have a noid mocked up I will try it with some custom manifolds to see what it looks like.

I will keep an eye out for the noids you mentioned, the MacDev piece is nice but Im hesitant to add a $100 noid to the cost of the setup.

My goal is to make everything OEM compatible. Ex; someone wants just the tray, they can use their stock trigger frame. If I make the tray proprietary to the trigger frame this would be much easier but more expensive for the end user.
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Old 12-31-2014, 07:34 AM #8
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The stock ICD wiring harness is 26/28g. I use 24g wires. Its a little thicker but a lot more durable on the user and for the user.

The area right around the trigger is Grand Central station with wires. With an eye harness and the board in the grip, you have potentially 8 wires going over the trigger area alone( 2 each for the LED, on/off, & 4 for the eyes), not to mention 2 for the noid. If you move the board into the tray, it does clear up some to only 5 wires(3 to the microswitch & 2 for the battery), as you now tuck the noid wires inline with the tray. It can be a nightmare for just the wires.

To hose the noid, its fairly straight forward. You if so inclined, can offer a starter kit of sorts with the barbs and precut hoses. This would give you some control on plotting the space. I do know, as i have had to wire multiple T2 trayless setups, that in that confined space, there is little space for anything. You really need to play with a physical model to understand how things would work in the real world. Yes, numbers are exact and they don't lie, but the difference in battery thickness or even having the noid sit upside down could be or remove potential headaches. Making the tray out of wood is a great practical way of proving your theory would work or you would need to go back to the drawing board.

Now for the noid, forget the Macdev noids, or the Creed/Demon noids. They are too proprietary and too expensive for this. IF, and here is a huge IF, this does get out for retail, the market is small to begin with, and even if the tray/frame is a huge hit, the price with a new noid would be 3 times the cost of most B2Ks. I don't want to pay $70+ for a new noid to use with this. If anything, i would look at the Mac43(or Mac33, i forget which is the direct replacement) noid(s), since they are cheap. I have a couple, but haven't worked out the air path for them yet. Its a back burner project, since the supply of Humprey and Parker noids are just about nil. Plus, not many buyers would literally like to gut the lower half of a gun, just because you want to. You do need to compromise for the market and what the maket can bare.
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