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Old 11-17-2008, 08:25 PM #127
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:27 PM #128
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Why the hell is everyone saying 7-man games last long? How many games did Dynasty take out the last player on other team 1 min. into the game? I saw this done repeatedly this weekend.

Seriously though, it's all paintball, and it's all fun. Now everyone should just shut up and start thinking about how to get back on the field asap.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:27 PM #129
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Anyone that says 7 man is boring to watch needs to get there hands on some Trumahead films. Paintball needs to be filmed right and it is fun. I miss TH real bad. Please someone bring back TH or the NPPL tapes from the first or second season those were good also.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:29 PM #130
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you obviously have never played an xball event if you think that it takes no skill to play xball. on snake side, you can barely hear anyone because you have a million people shouting to one player, and you cant understand what they are saying. a lot of the time the dorito coach doesnt know who is shooting you in across field because they cant see.

coaching is in virtually every sport. look at baseball, you have someone on first and third. are you saying it takes no skill to play baseball?
(i dont play/like baseball so correct me if im wrong on that 1st and third base coach thing)
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:42 PM #131
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7-man: Long gun fight battles that rarely end quick. There's always one person that does something really ballsy off the break and everyone else does something conservative. The gun fights are awesome and the snake battles are awesome. It is like chess, one team acts, the other team reacts. When one team makes a mistake, you act on it and go from there, hopefully to your victory.

PSP/X-Ball: Very aggressive, very intricate plays, combined with the athleticism and quick thinking needed to play x-ball = very amazing games and matches. Instead of waiting for your opponent to make the first mistake, you take the initiative and push their **** in.

Both formats are awesome and I guess it just really depends on whatever tickles your fancy.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:48 PM #132
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The point about coaching that people don't like is not anything more then having someone yell, "He's coming." when someone makes a move. Everyone hears it. How many a great moves has been turned into a trade out because of coaching?
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:07 PM #133
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Originally Posted by Drowning In My Sleep View Post
7-man: Long gun fight battles that rarely end quick. There's always one person that does something really ballsy off the break and everyone else does something conservative. The gun fights are awesome and the snake battles are awesome. It is like chess, one team acts, the other team reacts. When one team makes a mistake, you act on it and go from there, hopefully to your victory.

PSP/X-Ball: Very aggressive, very intricate plays, combined with the athleticism and quick thinking needed to play x-ball = very amazing games and matches. Instead of waiting for your opponent to make the first mistake, you take the initiative and push their **** in.

Both formats are awesome and I guess it just really depends on whatever tickles your fancy.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:29 PM #134
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If anyone wants to go back through this thread and look, I've never said anything bad about the 7-man format... I'm just sick of hearing people say Xball is just coaches and ramping guns. We were in 3rd place for the season after 4 events, winning the 1st and placing second in the 4th event. (At the same time, my team won the 2005 IAO (7-man, division 3) and got 4th in 2006 Boston NPPL.) Anyway, I refuse to let people tell me and my guys that the only reason we've done well is because some people yelling on the sidelines and ramping guns. Point is, if that were what was winning games, we wouldn't constantly be playing against the same teams in quarters and finals. Give us semi-auto guns and don't let anyone coach us, (we practice without coaches anyway) and I promise you you'll see the same teams in the finals. Teams that rely on coaching and ramping to win just get stomped.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:35 PM #135
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:40 PM #136
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:13 AM #137
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7-man games do take a while, don't they?

I really love people who are apparently incapable of thinking for themselves. You seem to have had someone tell you something. It seems to support what you want to believe. So you repeat it.

The problem is, the thing you're repeating isn't true.

NPPL Pro 7-man series champion:

Dynasty.

NXL Regular Season leader:

Dynasty.

NPPL Pro 7-man Season 2nd place:

Ironmen

NXL Champs:

Ironmen.

Doesn't look like 7-man winners have any more experience than XBall winners to me.



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Yes it does, Dynasty has wont he last 6 NPPL championships? Who has won the last 6 NXL seris, different teams. Dynasty has more experiance than any other team period. And if you say the men have just as much, no your wrong again, using your dumb statistics and assumptions just like every other one of your posts your wrong because your so biased. The men have a 19 yr old kid, playing with them, ryan green span Todd martinez and Fragie have been playing pro longer than hes been playing paintball. 7 man does not take more "experiance" but more time played with your teammates. Thats why throw togeahter teams do not win 7-man, because you have to communicate on a paintball field, which is very difficult when there is 7 people on a field. And teams that win 7 man consitantly know their teammates, have been playing togeather longer, and thats a fact. Dynasty has been playing togeather forever. and it show because now they have 6 NPPL chamionships, the men are awesome, they are very good at X-Ball, but they obvioulsy do not have something that dynasty has. Which you have conviently overlook again, just like your explanation on ramping.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:56 AM #138
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Yes it does, Dynasty has wont he last 6 NPPL championships? Who has won the last 6 NXL seris, different teams. Dynasty has more experiance than any other team period. And if you say the men have just as much, no your wrong again, using your dumb statistics and assumptions just like every other one of your posts your wrong because your so biased. The men have a 19 yr old kid, playing with them, ryan green span Todd martinez and Fragie have been playing pro longer than hes been playing paintball. 7 man does not take more "experiance" but more time played with your teammates. Thats why throw togeahter teams do not win 7-man, because you have to communicate on a paintball field, which is very difficult when there is 7 people on a field. And teams that win 7 man consitantly know their teammates, have been playing togeather longer, and thats a fact. Dynasty has been playing togeather forever. and it show because now they have 6 NPPL chamionships, the men are awesome, they are very good at X-Ball, but they obvioulsy do not have something that dynasty has. Which you have conviently overlook again, just like your explanation on ramping.

hooray ignorance
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:22 AM #139
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:52 AM #140
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:27 AM #141
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"Good teams, however, will lose a point and then completely dissect your plays. If you sent a guy hard snake side when you won, you better believe they're going to have two guns on that snake... Or will they? Maybe they are expecting you to push the D side hard since you just pushed snake the last point, so they're going to put two guns D-side? Or maybe they noticed your laners shot from the center towards the outsides, so they're going to send someone X to get all your shooters stuck in the center and try and hit a guy running out wide... You have to take all that into consideration in the next minute and a half or so while you're loading your pods, getting air and cleaning off hits, and then come up with a play you think will work against how this team has been playing you.

7-man you just kind of flip a coin on how you think they'll breakout and hope for the best. Once you get into finals and the best of 3 format kicks in you get some of that game play thinking going on, but for the most part if you send a guy snake OTB against a team and make it, and then win the game you beat that team and move on. In Xball you have to be able to replicate that at least 7-10 times, per team. Good luck with that."

to that quote and all saying 7 man is conservative... your right, and if you play 7 then you know getting in alive and strategizing ON the field is what we do. before a 7 man game you note key bunkers and lanes, maybe you know the other team your playing is, ie:snake heavy or likes the 50, but other than a few factors, you have to figure out what to do during play.

if you play psp you get several chances to go out and show what your made of ( or get shown...) which is great to prove who is the better team, deffinatly helps the whole "they got lucky ect.ect." complainers. the strategy is more complex in my OPINION. before a match your constantly adapting strategy to what just happened

i think of it like two kinds of racing, like rallying compared to autox

in a rally when you drive the course and take pace notes, you pay attention to slippery or sloped roads/danger spots, because the race is longer (hours to days) and you cant win if you dont finish

before and auto x you drive the course memorize your line, paying attention to corner entry apexes and when to throttle. and when it comes time, you blast your way through the course giving your all at every turn for total of say 2-10 min usually

before a nppl match im thinking how to get in alive and once in play its about staying live, communicating and stratigizing as things happen, or to make things happen

before a psp match im thinking about what my part is in our strategy ie:get in the dorito and lock down the tape while john doe moves his *** up the field and applys pressure

and as for the rof cap and coaching psp wouldnt be psp if it didnt have them, the whole reason games move is because 1) no gun/equipment advantage (there is but most fights happen closer than 7 so accuracy doesnt matter as much and speeds the same) to level the playingfield, and 2) you cant be as sneaky with coaching, theres alot less confusion as to where the other team is because of coaching so to defeat that you need to keep moving and findind new lanes/people to shoot

nppl is just a differant style of play and happens to be what i prefer,but i think if they ever made all games a best two out of three (besides the fact that the tourney would never end) that would be the ultimate.

I love paintball... psp, nppl, civil war style, big games whatever human hunting is awesome

edit:btw making snake off the brake does not win 7 man, and our team wins most on the dorito side
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:26 PM #142
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Yeah, I don't get all the hate.

NPPL and PSP are different, that's for sure. Both are awesome for different reasons. Pick one, pick both, but for the love of God, just shut up and play.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:26 PM #143
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electronic or not one pull-one shot fired IS semi-auto. triggers have gotten easy and smoother. erganomics of guns have gotten better. resulting in ease of trigger walking. however if your gun is shooting more than one pull-one shot, than by definition its NOT semi. you sir clearly have more experience, i have very limited experience (almost none) with psp/xball, at anything more than a rec level. but I can clearly see when two players are dueling with semi-auto guns there can be an advantage to the player with more experience/training/practice regarding trigger speed.
You've missed the point.

On the field, virtually NOBODY IS SHOOTING SEMI-AUTO!

You can't have a comparison of trigger skills when the gun is being fired by the board and not the player.

There is no contest of trigger skills left in paintball. It's either all the same (ramping) or a contest in who has the best gun electronics.

Trigger skills are dead. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain delusional.


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Old 11-18-2008, 01:28 PM #144
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None of this ever would have mattered if the NPPL and PSP didn't change the rules to allow force-fed loaders. We'd still have people using Revvies, Warp Feeds, high-rises and all that crap. But I guess when some of your biggest sponsors are the companies making the paint, any rule that increases revenue is a good rule.

I'm actually shocked that the PSP dropped the ROF cap by 12%. That's gotta eat into the profits.
You don't understand the industry.

I realize this is not obvious - and it took some in the industry some time to figure this out, BUT...

The more paint a player has to use to play, the *LESS* money the paint companies make.

You're going to see the industry as a whole pushing lower paint consumption across the board. They don't want people shooting more paint. They want more people shooting paint. The difference is subtle but important.

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Old 11-18-2008, 01:29 PM #145
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"... I'm just sick of hearing people say Xball is just coaches and ramping guns. We were in 3rd place for the season after 4 events, winning the 1st and placing second in the 4th event. (At the same time, my team won the 2005 IAO (7-man, division 3) and got 4th in 2006 Boston NPPL.) Anyway, I refuse to let people tell me and my guys that the only reason we've done well is because some people yelling on the sidelines and ramping guns. Point is, if that were what was winning games, we wouldn't constantly be playing against the same teams in quarters and finals. Give us semi-auto guns and don't let anyone coach us, (we practice without coaches anyway) and I promise you you'll see the same teams in the finals. Teams that rely on coaching and ramping to win just get stomped."



flarkey25: you dont have to tell me... most people whove even gone to a legit psp practice and entered a team for a rotation (or w/e you guys do?) should know the coaching doesnt make much differance or the ramping it all just creates the "psp" style of play, just like 7man the no coaching, bigger fields and uncapped guns creates the "nppl" style of play.

realistically its what type of ball you like to play because no matter WHAT the rules are, we all have to follow them.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:35 PM #146
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7-man games do take a while, don't they?

I really love people who are apparently incapable of thinking for themselves. You seem to have had someone tell you something. It seems to support what you want to believe. So you repeat it.

The problem is, the thing you're repeating isn't true.

NPPL Pro 7-man series champion:

Dynasty.

NXL Regular Season leader:

Dynasty.

NPPL Pro 7-man Season 2nd place:

Ironmen

NXL Champs:

Ironmen.

Doesn't look like 7-man winners have any more experience than XBall winners to me.



That's true - any spazzball can do that.

But just like you had no idea what you were talking about when you said 7-man players have 'played longer', you don't know what you're talking about here. Sure, any spazzball can do that. But that's not the interesting question. The interesting question is, can they just do that AND WIN?

They won't.

Tell you what. How about the first XBall event next year, I hire out the Ironmen's or Dynasty's or Legion's or American's coaching staff (your choice), and pay your team's entry.

Your team is going to win the NXL now, right? Right?

Or are you going to get your ***** handed to you?

What's your excuse going to be when you lose every match 9 to 0? Since it can't have been the coaching, according to your reasoning, that must mean you either can't run to a bunker, can't shoot a lane, or can't move when someone tells you.

And if you are losing because you can't run to bunkers, can't shoot lanes, and can't move when someone tells you to, I would submit that MAYBE the problem isn't the format. MAYBE the problem is that you're not any good.


Anyone who says that XBall is just moving when people tell you to is being stupid. It's a patently absurd statement. If it were true, there wouldn't be any Pro players. You'd have paid Pro coaches, and the players would be whoever you could pick up off the street.


We get it. 7-man is slower. You don't know where the other players are all the time. It takes time to figure it out. But not knowing where your opponent is (or your opponent not knowing where you are) doesn't make XBall any less strategic than 7-man, any more than Chess is any less strategic if you don't play wearing a blindfold.

Here's another board game anology:

If XBall is like Checkers, 7-man is like Battleship.

One is based on making the best decision knowing where your opponent is, AND with your opponent knowing where you are.

The other is guessing.

- Chris
i 100% agree xball is about adjusting to what the other team does and fix what your doing wrong which seems to be alot more strategy. xball makes it more like other sport what sport do u only score one point and game is over. beside nppl.
it give u a chance to know the other team and adjust to what they do
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:36 PM #147
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Your quite wrong. The ammount of people who can shoot 18 rounds per second is very few, its irrelvent to the argument but there is alot of people out there who claim they can shoot it,
And 99% of the people claiming that are wrong. I had a guy in the college forum claim he can shoot 27 bps. That wasn't true either.

Quote:
Every electronic gun ramps? Have you ever played NPPL, the refs shoot your guns before every game and often they say "To bouncy cant play" Happened to my team personally, and many others.
Thank you for proving my point. NPPL's test method is the ref shoots the gun and decides if it is 'too' bouncy. Which means that a "little" bouncy is OK, and therefore shooting NOT semi-auto is OK.

You have a test process that is executed by a human. If the ref is going to allow ALL semi-auto guns, he must, due to the imprecise nature of enforcement, allow SOME guns that bounce. And yes, I've been at NPPL events, and fired "legal" NPPL player guns, and I can assure you that the level of acceptable bounce in NPPL is well above "semi-auto". And that's just the HONEST players, not counting the hidden cheat modes.

Quote:
Lets hypotheticaly take someon who can shoot 18 rouns per second. And lets even say he can consitantly hold for the sake of your argument that were talking to these kids who shoot 18 BPS.

18 for 5 seconds goes to load and shoots 3-6 bps per second for about 5-8 seconds. so 30 (+- however many you want) balls over that period of time. So in 13 seconds you just shot about 140 balls. 10.7 BPS.

And some one who is ramping can shoot 13.3 while loading and holding lanes. This Situation is also only taking into consideration an amazing paintball player who can shoot 18 bps consistanatly, load perfectly and shoot pretty quick while loading. Totally give your argument favor.

-Running and Shooting semi vs ramping? Way way way easier ramping,

-Lanning semi vs ramping? Much easier you can stay very relaxed and shoot a very consitant stream of paint. Which most people cannot shoot as constitant a stream, I for sure cant, or do not know many people who can

Left handed shooting v.s right handed shooting? Way easier ramping.

Ramping ruins alot of paintball, taking away many skillful aspects. And no shooting on semi is much slower than on ramping.
Again, you have missed the point.

*EVERYONE* is shooting ramping guns. The *ONLY* differences between PSP and NPPL is PSP limits the ramping to 13.3 and NPPL doesn't, and PSP ramping is 3 balls per pull and NPPL ramping is around 1 to 3, depending on the board, microswitch, cheat mode, etc.

You can talk about how much "skill" there is in a player shooting semi-auto all day, but that makes about as much sense as talking about how much more of an athlete a guy is if he's going around the NASCAR track on a bike. It may be true, but nobody is racing NASCAR on a bike.


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