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Old 02-04-2014, 10:22 PM #1
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ROF Change

Anyone else besides me think it'd be cool to see psp make a change to semi from ramping?
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:40 PM #2
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Well If it is capped semi than sure it could be interesting.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:25 PM #3
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:34 AM #4
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I'd think it would be cool if they played pump since that requires more reflexes and skill than any other paintball setup. Every other format is just kids with toys IMO.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:31 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian P View Post
I'd think it would be cool if they played pump since that requires more reflexes and skill than any other paintball setup. Every other format is just kids with toys IMO.
No one goes to a PSP event to watch pump. And so you're saying people who use cockers, pistols, semis, and electros don't need skills to do well? Hmmmm.

P.S., I play pump too, so I can see it from both sides.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:12 AM #6
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I should have said electros.

And yes, I think that battery powered anything (hopper or gun) reduces the skill you need to shoot well.

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Old 02-05-2014, 08:52 AM #7
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the problem with semi is all these kids and agglet types wouldn't be able to play cuz they have to use more than one finger on the trigger to get any bps. there is no longer a need for them to learn how to walk the trigger like we older folks all had to do before they invented the ramping mode.
i personally would love it to be uncapped semi to give those who actually learned the skill and advantage or at least cap it high at like 15.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:40 AM #8
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the problem with semi is all these kids and agglet types wouldn't be able to play cuz they have to use more than one finger on the trigger to get any bps. there is no longer a need for them to learn how to walk the trigger like we older folks all had to do before they invented the ramping mode.
i personally would love it to be uncapped semi to give those who actually learned the skill and advantage or at least cap it high at like 15.
Uncapped semi would lead to some really slow gameplay, and back players completely controlling the field. Ramping really is more of a hindrance than an aid once you know how to work a trigger, so I'd like to see it replaced by a capped semi rate that would allow some more skill to come into play for bps. I think you're dead on with 15bps, that seems like a good balance.

I'd like to see a lower rate of fire cap for low level tournaments though, so that teams with less money behind them can have a chance against teams that can buy and shoot massive amounts of paint. It would open up the sport a lot and help remove the stigma that speedball is just a rich man's sport.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:09 AM #9
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like an 8bps cap on the d3 and lower for the local event or are you talking psp also. i am a big advacate for the semi only movement. i play in semi even at events at times just because it is not change for me to be semi or ramping. the 12bps is easliy achieved either way.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:20 PM #10
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I never shoot anything other than semi. I hate ramping. My son just started playing a couple months ago, and was wanting to shoot in full auto. I told him not a chance. Sack up and learn to shoot.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:35 PM #11
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I don't see them going to semi any time soon. Ramp in the psp is there to create an equal fire rule for all players. It does suck after growing up playing NPPL and only shooting semi, but it is what it is. Besides, even in the NPPL that was supposed to be Semi, players would still have cheater boards that would initiate some sort of ramp/full auto mode and then switch back to semi. One of my friends even played a full event that was supposed to be semi in psp ramp mode and no one caught him.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:04 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothBread View Post
Anyone else besides me think it'd be cool to see psp make a change to semi from ramping?
Why?

I usually hear this argument from the folks that play the skill card. "We should play in Semi only and reward those who have learned how to shoot quickly in semi."

We tried that, people bent the rules so they could compete with guys who were skilled enough to shoot 20 bps in semi-auto mode and it was deemed to cap the ROF and to make it so anyone could shoot at the cap speed.

Also, the "skill" card is a double edged sword. For example:

"How about we go back to semi-auto mechanical markers so those who had the skill to get high rates of fire without eyes or batteries can use that skill."

"How about we go back to pump only so those who learned the skill of making every shot count can use that skill."

"How about we go back to Splatmasters so those who have the skill of moving, being stealthy, and conserving your shots can use those skills."

No, tournament has come to the point where they're trying to level the playing field because technology was threatening to send the cost of the sport into the stratosphere. Now that you limit rate of fire, players don't have to have $1500 guns, $300 force feed hoppers and $1 trillion worth of paint per player in order to compete.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:32 PM #13
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It would be cool, but it's too hard to regulate. Back before ramping, there was he speedy 2 board....then there was the predator board....changing to uncapped semi would bring back the cheater boards
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:14 PM #14
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I say leave PSP the way it is. 12.5 (i know its 10.? for the pros now) is a good happy medium to where its not so fast that it prevents movement, but its not so slow where you can just walk through lanes without being hit. I dont really have a problem with ramping since it's not very difficult to walk 12.5 anyways. I think ramping lets some people focus more on movement, and less on making their fingers work. IMO movement is way more interesting to watch and fun to play than just gun battles.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:07 AM #15
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Quote:
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like an 8bps cap on the d3 and lower for the local event or are you talking psp also. i am a big advacate for the semi only movement. i play in semi even at events at times just because it is not change for me to be semi or ramping. the 12bps is easliy achieved either way.
Just for local events, the leagues are pretty well set up how they are now.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:49 AM #16
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Well I think that ramping allows for one handed and one finger shooting at 12.5 bps while reloading. This is purely for back players who reload every 30 seconds shooting a lane. Snake players or front players will have some lanes, but gaining real estate is the name of the game for the front guys, not shooting a constant stream from corner to corner.

Pump has a place for pump tournaments. If your a pump fanboy, your not going to appreciate the electric scene. Besides, the days of speedball played by 100,000's of people is coming to a close. It will be a niche of the sport. It's moving towards scenario games to get the numbers that played speedball in early 2000's.

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Old 02-06-2014, 10:34 AM #17
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Let me say this for starters so you all know where I'm coming from. I've been playing pump since 1993. I've also used semis since 1996. I'm very good with both, not saying that to brag -- more just to say I know the aspects of both ways of playing.

This talk of "there's no skill in semi play" or "semis are like everyone running around with toys" is just an attempt by newer-generation pump players who want to make themselves sound hard. What a joke. I agree, it takes a certain skill to use a minimal amount of paint to eliminate the other team. It is quite another skill to SURVIVE on a small field where at any given moment, there are 600 paintballs in the air. To say one form of play is better than the other or more "pure" is to compare apples to oranges. They are different and an alternate skill-set is required for each.

Moving on, yes, I'd like to see a return to semi-only play, but capped semi. 12.5 would be fine. I believe that it would add a little more challenge that is not offered by capped ramping. Namely, only the most skilled players could achieve current ramping-levels of performance when doing multi-tasking jobs such as laning while reloading and running and gunning. It wouldn't be a huge difference, but it would be a difference. The reason it needs to be capped is that we would indeed see a return to people shooting 20+ bps on "semi" when their fingers were only hitting the trigger 12 or so times per second. That wasn't in anybody's best interest. Uncapped would simply be too hard to police.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:22 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
Let me say this for starters so you all know where I'm coming from. I've been playing pump since 1993. I've also used semis since 1996. I'm very good with both, not saying that to brag -- more just to say I know the aspects of both ways of playing.

This talk of "there's no skill in semi play" or "semis are like everyone running around with toys" is just an attempt by newer-generation pump players who want to make themselves sound hard. What a joke.
I'm not trying to sound hard, I think that it's way easier to hit someone with ramping and electric guns and hoppers than pumps. That's my opinion, whether you respect it or not. I still play electors and pumps but think if it's a competition and you want the highest skill level, take away all the bells and whistles and make each shot count.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say people brag by saying "I'm not bagging" but most are.

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Old 02-06-2014, 11:41 AM #19
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I'm not trying to sound hard, I think that it's way easier to hit someone with ramping and electric guns and hoppers than pumps. That's my opinion, whether you respect it or not. I still play electors and pumps but think if it's a competition and you want the highest skill level, take away all the bells and whistles and make each shot count.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say people brag by saying "I'm not bagging" but most are.
Yes, it is easier to hit someone with more paint out of your gun. So the better players become better at not getting HIT, and better players eliminate MORE PEOPLE FASTER with semis. When everyone has the same level equipment, it's a fair fight. The best players still win. Also remember that not all who use electronic equipment NEED or RELY on the full capabilities of said equipment. Personally, I can one-ball people just as easily with my electro as I can with my various pump guns. What I CAN'T do with a pump is take out 10 people in as many seconds like I've done with a semi.

If I feel like playing more of a "pick your shots" type of game, I'll grab my pump. If I feel like playing more of a "take no prisoners" type of game, I'll use a mech semi or electro. Neither one takes more or less skill than another -- they are just different.

**You should note that I did not reference you directly in my original post -- you just took it as such.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:13 PM #20
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Quote:
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Yes, it is easier to hit someone with more paint out of your gun. So the better players become better at not getting HIT, and better players eliminate MORE PEOPLE FASTER with semis.

**You should note that I did not reference you directly in my original post -- you just took it as such.
I'll agree that it's different and that better players don't get hit, but I have a higher outs per game with my electro and can put 4 shots to my 1 with my pump. Does that make me a better player? Not really. But your right, it's different type of game.

And taking part of my post and putting it in yours (kids with toys) is referencing me. It's ok. You did it with class but let's call a spade a spade.

I'd like to see pro players play more than just one style of play. If you had to play more than electro, I think the games could be just as interesting as speedball shooting.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:00 PM #21
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I disagree with a return to semi for a few reasons...

1. Ramping levels the playing field. You can have a Kingman Spyder and a PE LV1 and on ramp their rate of fire is the same even though one cost $1,000 more than the other. If you compare that to the old days with the ROF of an old PMI Piranha ($100) to that of a STO Cocker ($450-700 depending on the year) the STO's ROF kills it. Mechanically the PMI just can't hit the same ROF as the Cocker can. If you want to compete at the higher ROF you HAVE to buy a better gun.

2. ROF doesn't always equal skill in a mech. I hear this a lot but it's not true. Like I said above no amount of skill is going to make a entry level mech shoot as fast a high end mech can. To make matters worse I remember mags that where so "sweet spotted" that they bounced almost full auto. So I wouldn't call hitting 13 bps with a mag like "Skill" unless we are talking about the air smith who tuned it. My old Piranha could never hit 13 even after I modded the hell out of it no matter how much skill I had. My cocker could do 13 but it cost a lot more and I tuned the crap out of it.

3. Cheaters will cheat and electros aren't going away. If you can't stop them, or regulate them, than you have to set a ROF you can enforce and let it be. I don't want a return to people cranking down their debounce as a work around to high ROF while still being "semi" (if you can call it that). Again ROF turned in to who could buy the most sensitive board, or more truthfully the board that "believed" it saw the most trigger pulls. I also don't want a return of "who could program the sneakiest mode of fire and not get caught using it" seriously ramping ended all of that.
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