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Old 11-16-2008, 09:10 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelyDeezNutz View Post
Yes, JT had a recall, they caught it early, and if the ears failed on the Proteus models that were defective, it could NO WAY affect your lenses... since the facemask and lense/lenseframe are 2 seperate pieces (the strap is attached to the lenseframe, the facemask is than attached to the lenseframe)
I noticed that you ignored the Brass Eagle lens failure. Save Phace has never had a documented lens failure that could be attributed to the mask failing in someway. Until that happens it's hearsay and conjecture, whether you want to believe it or not. You believe that the mask is substandard. Prove it with documentation, otherwise your just talking and talk is cheap.

Chubbs

I never said what happen to your team mate was "not a real issue". Your just taking what I said out of context and you know it.

I can't comment on your quote due to not reading the whole affair. For all I know you berated Save Phace and that was a legitimate response. A few of your team are know to be hot heads so that is a very real possibility. I've never contacted you in any way other than here on this forum, so I'm out of that one.

Unfortunately the cold hard truth is that every product, whether it be an automobile, airplane, space shuttle or a paintball mask, has a failure rate. Save Phace has worked hard to reduce that to the minimum that is possible. You and others don't believe that they care about the consumer, I believe that they do.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:25 PM #65
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i ignored the BE failure, because i dont know anything about it.

JT has been in business for how many years producing masks? and 1 recall?
BE has been in business for how many years producing masks? and 1 recall?
SP has been in business for 1? year producing paintball masks? and 1 recall?

what documentation would you like... comfort testing? coverage? bounce factor? sales receipts?

Im stating that SavePhace masks are not as good as other masks out there, especially the ones in the same price range... take a look around at how many e-vents, grillz, Proflexes, profilers, Dye I3 pros, you see at your local field... now take a count of how many save phace masks you see at your local field...

Since i've HEARD of this company... i've seen a whopping 1 mask (besides mine) and thats playing 2-4 times a week at various fields (woods/rec/speed/x-ball) and it wasnt even at a field, it was at NPPL Buffalo, and the player was using it to have pros sign it so he could hang it on his wall.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:35 PM #66
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SP has come out at a point where all designs have been tried giving them and edge to improve upon something they can see. They should be making an outstanding product for having years of other companies trial and errors to look at and learn from. The technology no doubt has become better and made it easier to produce these masks.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:46 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelyDeezNutz View Post
i ignored the BE failure, because i dont know anything about it.

JT has been in business for how many years producing masks? and 1 recall?
BE has been in business for how many years producing masks? and 1 recall?
SP has been in business for 1? year producing paintball masks? and 1 recall?

what documentation would you like... comfort testing? coverage? bounce factor? sales receipts?

Im stating that SavePhace masks are not as good as other masks out there, especially the ones in the same price range... take a look around at how many e-vents, grillz, Proflexes, profilers, Dye I3 pros, you see at your local field... now take a count of how many save phace masks you see at your local field...

Since i've HEARD of this company... i've seen a whopping 1 mask (besides mine) and thats playing 2-4 times a week at various fields (woods/rec/speed/x-ball) and it wasnt even at a field, it was at NPPL Buffalo, and the player was using it to have pros sign it so he could hang it on his wall.
Hard to compare a company that's been out less than a year with others that have been out many years. For Save Phace the replacement of the lens was NOT a recall as defined as such and there was no fear in anyone getting hurt. The lens would not fit into the mask so could not be used. No failures, no recalls. Save Phace took care of an issue and make their customers happy. I can name off four people other than my son and I that wear the Save Phace mask. They are not sponsored players either. Maybe your area just is not into the Save Phace mask or as you stated you are actively attempting to affect the market so that others don't buy the mask.

Ever notice how all Wal-marts don't carry the same stuff, even in the same city. It's the market of the area. I would think you would know that. I believe that in the past you stated you had a higher than average knowledge of business operations.

Last edited by Txvman : 11-16-2008 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:46 PM #68
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if its hard to compare the companies, why did you do so?

hopefully, I have effected the area to the point that no one wants these masks... that would mean that they all got to try it on or had first hand experiences with it... but its hard to believe that me, 1 person, could have the effect of no one else in the entire southern ny/nj/ct area would want this mask... didnt see 1 at ION at skirmish, only saw the 1 getting signatures on it at NPPL Buffalo, and never saw one at various big games or tourneys throughout the year.

I dont think I ever said I have higher than average knowledge business operations.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:15 PM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txvman View Post
Your team has had ONE very scary incident in which you can NOT state the cause. It could very well have been owner error. Be honest now, you can't say what the cause of the failure was. The Save Phace mask has done exactly what it is designed to do, protect your face and eyes. SP customer service is excellent, I don't know where you got that from. Every problem I've had has been taken care of without question or hesitation. I've not seen one Save Phace employee bash anyone about a problem or try to silence anyone. Your either dreaming or your high. Your not objective one little bit and you can't prove any of the derogatory things you just posted.

Now talking about mask problems did you know that in 2001 JT had a mask recall? Or how about Brass Eagle's 1998 mask recall? Brass Eagle actually had 8 reports of mask lens failure before the recall!

You see these are REAL issues, not the made up BS that you and everyone else has been throwing about.
how are you not saying that the incident was not a real issue when you just clearly said it was bull**** that me and everyone else was stating. im not twisting your words, im just quoting you, and you know it.

it seems like everyone is twisting your words every time they quote you. maybe you need to not be so ambiguous in the way your conveying your messages, and maybe actually try to make sure people are understanding what you are trying to say.

and also just to be clear, i wasnt saying you had come on to our website. my previous post may have been taken that way.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:39 AM #70
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I saw them at NPPL Jax, a local tournament team uses them, i've seen a couple rec ballers with them and I've seen a few pictures of some scenario guys with them in this area.

Honestly, I don't think anyone interested in buying these masks really care what any of you think. I mean, you might scare away a couple kids from buying them, but for the most part, who actually reads this thread?
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:50 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelyDeezNutz View Post
if its hard to compare the companies, why did you do so?

hopefully, I have effected the area to the point that no one wants these masks... that would mean that they all got to try it on or had first hand experiences with it... but its hard to believe that me, 1 person, could have the effect of no one else in the entire southern ny/nj/ct area would want this mask... didnt see 1 at ION at skirmish, only saw the 1 getting signatures on it at NPPL Buffalo, and never saw one at various big games or tourneys throughout the year.

I dont think I ever said I have higher than average knowledge business operations.
I was not comparing the companies in the way that you are. I was making an example to show that other companies have had issues that went far and beyond what you have stated that Save Phace has done. Your bitterness is causing you to misunderstand what I'm actually saying. Don't you feel good that your efforts have born such wonderful fruit? LOL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by {OG}-Chubbs- View Post
how are you not saying that the incident was not a real issue when you just clearly said it was bull**** that me and everyone else was stating. im not twisting your words, im just quoting you, and you know it.

it seems like everyone is twisting your words every time they quote you. maybe you need to not be so ambiguous in the way your conveying your messages, and maybe actually try to make sure people are understanding what you are trying to say.

and also just to be clear, i wasnt saying you had come on to our website. my previous post may have been taken that way.
Your quoting me out of context of what I said. I know you know how to read but I didn't know you were not able to comprehend what I'm saying. I don't believe that I can be anymore straight forward than I have been. I guess I could maybe try to write at a 6th grade level if you would like.

Last edited by Txvman : 11-17-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:46 PM #72
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I know I'm new here and I don't want to start off by jumping right into the middle of an argument, but I feel compelled to comment because this thread is ridiculous. Just to clarify, I haven't played paintball since early 2004 and have recently decided to get back into it after an almost 5 year hiatus. I had never heard of Save Phace before seeing their banner on this site, so I'm not going to comment on their quality. What I take issue with is the maturity level in which these negative comments are being dealt with. NoelyDeezNutz may be blowing things out of proportion a bit, but the guys defending SP don't seem to me doing much better from my perspective. I mean come on, "What if the mask implodes and melts the players head?"(paraphrasing) Really!? "What about BE and JT having recalls?" How do these things in any way lend credibility to the quality of SP's masks? Txvman, I have to say from an objective standpoint almost all of your posts come off as condescending and arrogant. I understand that you are over twice my age and have much more life experience than me, and I can respect that, but some of the things that you have typed in here seem like bull**** to try and skirt around the issue at hand to me, and you are just as guilty as SP's detractors of resorting to personal insults instead of making a reasonable argument for your point.

Sorry for the length, my point of this is that every SP supporter in this thread (with the exception The Real Boss) has left a bad taste in my mouth due to their attitude towards other voicing concerns. I honestly think you guys are hurting SP's case more than helping it here.

And The Real Boss, just so we're clear, I have no problem with your product as I have never used it, I'm commenting solely on the folks in this thread.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:38 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txvman View Post
Thx for your honesty. I appreciate you displaying your actual feelings and stating what motivates you speak out against Save Phace. At least now everyone can see what drives you to challenge and cut down Save Phace at every turn.
to be honest if you want to say he is TRYING to cut them down you are wrong.. if you had got food poisoning from a local harveys.. would you not tell others to be careful/dont go there since you had a terrible experiance? i know i would and i have since that happened to me. thats how business works.. when in BASIC business they tell you.. for every 10 customers you please outta that 10 maybe 1 or 2 might tell others about their experiance.. when you piss off a customer and only 1. that 1 person will on average tell 8-12 people about the experiance they had... so he is doing a service is his mind letting others know to be careful when using the sp product..


but im sure im in the wrong here so ill just be quiet to make you happy..
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:23 PM #74
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txvman, there was no need to try to personally insult me. and honestly, you clearly stated that the issues we presented were not "REAL issues", such as the ones you linked to, and that my and everyone else's negative comments about save phace are "made up BS". a clearer meaning cannot be derived from your statement, especially when you put emphasis on certain words.

and seriously, i believe you yourself stated that when people lose an argument, they result to personal attacks when no evidence supports their claim. you have just tried to insult me by saying you should right in a sixth grade level so i better understand you. wtf?
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Last edited by {OG}-Chubbs- : 11-17-2008 at 10:26 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:06 AM #75
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first I would like to start off by saying sorry to anyone I have offended in my post's.
NDN I was surprise to read that you have received e-mails and phone calls regarding you review, while I may not agree with you all of the time you voiced your concerns about a product, people should understand that, and not ask you to remove your post.

It was mentioned that everything man made has a failure rate, this is true. I feel that everyone here is intelligent, so I will not have to go into depth about statistics.
Companies use statistics to determine what their failure rate is, it could be 90%, 95%, or 99%. Having a one percent failure is really good but when you are making a million of something you have quite a few that are going to fail take the auto industry. I am not sure what SP had determined for their fail rate but I hope that they went with the theory of the five nine's that is a 99.999% success rate. Nothing is 100% successful I just can't be, I have had this pounded into my head over the past year. the best a manufacturing company can hope for is as little failure rate as possible.

As with any business venture the first offering can not satisfy everyone and will likely have issues that were unseen in testing. This is why changes are made and new models are produced. It is likely that SP will make changes to their design and offer some of what people are wanting, like soft ears. The best way to change a company is to let them know what you have concerns with. It is likely that other have the same issues.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:12 AM #76
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Thank you all for your input. I'd like to respond to a few things:

Quote:
Originally Posted by akara13 View Post
first I would like to start off by saying sorry to anyone I have offended in my post's.
NDN I was surprise to read that you have received e-mails and phone calls regarding you review, while I may not agree with you all of the time you voiced your concerns about a product, people should understand that, and not ask you to remove your post.
I am happy to address this issue. This is a prime example of hearing only part of a story - the part that makes NDN look like a victim. Here's the "other" part of the story. NDN signed up to be on our pro-staff - that is that he wanted to be a "paid" support to our company. Being a Pro-Staff member includes responsibilities like using the product, communicating with us about the product - likes and dislikes - areas that can be improved upon etc. As well as allowing other players to use the mask and to see for themselves first hand how the mask works for them. I am not aware of anyone asking NDN to "remove his posts". What I do know is that he got called out on being unprofessional as a Pro-Staff member. He never communicated with us about his experience with the mask, we found out about it by his unprofessional posts about our product on our forum here on PBNation.

We don't expect nor do we ever ask our Pro-Staff to be dishonest about their experiences with our mask. We are the first to admit that our 1st generation mask does not work well for everyone for various reasons. But to say "so now, i feel as if i wasted $$$ on a mask that i will NEVER wear again due to it just not being comfy and feeling "cheap" for lack of a better word..."
is extremely unprofessional, immature and shows a great lack of integrity on the Pro-Staff's part. There are a million and one ways to say that it does not fit my face, however it fit the younger players faces fine, etc. etc. Or, the foam kept falling out but after a quick call to the company, I found out that the first batch of foam was not glued in properly and they sent me replacement foam immediately (which is what would have happened had we received a phone call from NDN regarding this issue).

When you take on a position of "Sponsored player" you owe it to the company sponsoring you to be professional. If you can't or don't want to be professional and mature, then you should not be signing up to be a Pro-Staff member.

Quote:
It was mentioned that everything man made has a failure rate, this is true. I feel that everyone here is intelligent, so I will not have to go into depth about statistics.
Companies use statistics to determine what their failure rate is, it could be 90%, 95%, or 99%. Having a one percent failure is really good but when you are making a million of something you have quite a few that are going to fail take the auto industry. I am not sure what SP had determined for their fail rate but I hope that they went with the theory of the five nine's that is a 99.999% success rate. Nothing is 100% successful I just can't be, I have had this pounded into my head over the past year. the best a manufacturing company can hope for is as little failure rate as possible.
You are correct. We continue to shoot for that 99.999% success rate and have continued to reach it.

Quote:
As with any business venture the first offering can not satisfy everyone and will likely have issues that were unseen in testing. This is why changes are made and new models are produced. It is likely that SP will make changes to their design and offer some of what people are wanting, like soft ears. The best way to change a company is to let them know what you have concerns with. It is likely that other have the same issues.
THANK YOU!!! You are very wise.

Our mask is not for everyone but there are a large number of people that are pleased with their Save Phace masks as you will see in some of the other threads in this forum. A huge number of satisfied customers come from the scenario and rec ball players and there is a small number in the speed ball community as well. The only way to know if this mask will work for you is to try it out. It fits everyone different and everyone has a different experience with it.

We appreciate everyone's involvement here in our forum and we have gathered TONS of ammunition for our 2nd generation mask. You guys have been invaluable. Thanks for all of your feedback - good and bad!!
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:08 PM #77
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You are leaving out the fact that my posts were also me dropping SavePhace as a sponsor, due to their products not meeting my level of quality/comfort.

so any of my posts AFTER the playing review, were NOT that of a "Pro-staff" member.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:10 PM #78
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Since you did not inform them you dropped them as a sponsor you were still a sponsored player. You have to communicate to your sponsors, not blast them on a public forum. Imagine what other potential sponsors will think if they see this forum...
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:24 PM #79
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other companies probably wont take too much notice or care even if they read this thread. i honestly dont think what occurred between NDN and SP will be a make or break point for further sponsorships from other companies.

and seeing the post on the failure rate has somewhat put it in a new perspective for me. and trust me, i do wish that the mask would have lasted long enough to be sent in for inspection. but we cant change the past, we only can live with it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:26 PM #80
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My post was more in regards to his lack of communication with his sponsor and his lambasting them on a paintball forum instead of addressing his concerns directly with the company first.

Unprofessional is what comes to mind. Other companies will frown upon that if they were to be aware of it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:35 PM #81
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honest opinions on a company is not lambasting/slander/ OR unprofessional...

My sponsors have all read the posts, and they know me as a person AND as a player (both on and off the field) and they are 100% behind me. Since this whole ordeal began, I've been offered 3 new sponsorships... They were notified to read my review and if they STILL wanted to deal with me as a player and my team, to call me back... all 3 called back... 1 was a mask deal and 2 were gun deals...

Apparently, companies look at more than what another companies sponsored players have to say at a team/player before they make a choice to sponsor that player/team... Lucky for me, all the ones that look at my team and I aren't as closed minded as some of the posters in here...
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:43 PM #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelyDeezNutz View Post
honest opinions on a company is not lambasting/slander/ OR unprofessional...

My sponsors have all read the posts, and they know me as a person AND as a player (both on and off the field) and they are 100% behind me. Since this whole ordeal began, I've been offered 3 new sponsorships... They were notified to read my review and if they STILL wanted to deal with me as a player and my team, to call me back... all 3 called back... 1 was a mask deal and 2 were gun deals...

Apparently, companies look at more than what another companies sponsored players have to say at a team/player before they make a choice to sponsor that player/team... Lucky for me, all the ones that look at my team and I aren't as closed minded as some of the posters in here...
You were being honest, and simply reviewing the mask. I'd think that would help to get more sponsors, not deter them.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:18 PM #83
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for 1 company, its exactly what it did... they saw my review and came to me asking if I would like their product(s) for a highly discounted rate with some freebies... I said No, because I dont support that company.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:02 PM #84
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Txvman, I have to say from an objective standpoint almost all of your posts come off as condescending and arrogant.
That's your opinion of me and your welcome to it. Not much more to say really...
Quote:
Originally Posted by {OG}-Chubbs- View Post
txvman, there was no need to try to personally insult me...
After telling you several times the meanings of my statements and you in turn denying my explanations and still try to twist my words I had no choice BUT to ask you if wording my responses to you more simply would be better for you. If you care to take it any other way, it's your problem not mine.

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