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Old 12-29-2008, 11:42 PM #22
Rangerrick
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Originally Posted by ikey View Post
im not counting the optics o the upgrades. anybody can do that. i dunno. my imprssion of a custom gun is something, well...custom. as in cant be bought, custom MADE.

now i dont know if he custom fabricated that body or not? or maybe you bought a scenario dreams one, gave it a paintjob, threw some upps in and added scoped. in which case it is a upped scenario dreams ion you bought.

if that is in fact a custom made body...well then thats impressive.
Are you new to Custom Markers or just high? If you knew anything about custom work or decided to do a little research before opening your mouth, then you would know how WC makes these - and NO, we DIDN'T purchase a S.D. P90 and give it a paintjob. To my knowledge S.D. does not use an APE board in their P90's, but a proprietary "T" board, that they manufacture. If you look in the picture again, you can actually see the APE board membrane pad on mine.

If you must know, the body is actually an Airsoft P90, that's been gutted out, mounting points and brackets installed to accommodate the barrel, trigger, regulator & battery. Then, there's a bit of reinforcement that's done, since the body is plastic. There's an entire thread on WC's P90, right here on this very forum. Educate yourself, before you open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Birth of the WC P90

Scenario Dreams couldn't think of making something this good, IMHO....
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:49 PM #23
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well then that is very very good custom work. i just happened to be paroozing scenario dreams that that gun looks exactly like the one they sell. you didnt post pics of the work, so i couldnt "educate" myself, cause the only thing i see is a gun that look like one out of a store.

anyways yeah then thats good stuff.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:23 AM #24
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Originally Posted by Rangerrick View Post

Scenario Dreams couldn't think of making something this good, IMHO....
SD does the same thing to make theirs (modifying the body and etc.). Damon just used his T-Board instead of an APE...

He doesn't however duracoat his so you did get that for the extra money you paid. Honestly both Damon and WC do very high quality work. The difference between their P-90 Ions is the extras. Damon's P-90's are more bare and come with a T-Board. WC's usually come with all the toys (scopes, lasers, lights, etc). Again, both are very high quality mods. I don't understand why you're getting defensive. Your gun costs more because of the extra frills. What's wrong with that? You felt it necessary to go the extra mile for duracoating, sights, rails, etc and you spent the necessary money. Hey it's all personal preference.
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:14 AM #25
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SD does the same thing to make theirs (modifying the body and etc.). Damon just used his T-Board instead of an APE...

He doesn't however duracoat his so you did get that for the extra money you paid. Honestly both Damon and WC do very high quality work. The difference between their P-90 Ions is the extras. Damon's P-90's are more bare and come with a T-Board. WC's usually come with all the toys (scopes, lasers, lights, etc). Again, both are very high quality mods. I don't understand why you're getting defensive. Your gun costs more because of the extra frills. What's wrong with that? You felt it necessary to go the extra mile for duracoating, sights, rails, etc and you spent the necessary money. Hey it's all personal preference.
I get defensive when someone tries to state that I purchased something from S.D. added a scope to it and called it a WC custom. If someone creates something nice and out of the ordinary, I like to give them credit for their work - while others (I won't mention any names) try to put someone else's label to it because it so-called looks similar. The cost of my marker is not in question - of course, it's going to cost more. Trying to give someone else props, simply because of the way it looks - I do have a problem with...

I may not have posted pics of the work, but I did in fact post a link to the thread that has some of the work on it.

Last edited by Rangerrick : 12-30-2008 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:48 AM #26
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"well then that is very very good custom work. i just happened to be paroozing scenario dreams that that gun looks exactly like the one they sell. you didnt post pics of the work, so i couldnt "educate" myself, cause the only thing i see is a gun that look like one out of a store.

anyways yeah then thats good stuff."


hey i corrected myself. what more do you want. im just sayin it looked really suspicious.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:43 AM #27
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Originally Posted by Rangerrick View Post
I get defensive when someone tries to state that I purchased something from S.D. added a scope to it and called it a WC custom. If someone creates something nice and out of the ordinary, I like to give them credit for their work - while others (I won't mention any names) try to put someone else's label to it because it so-called looks similar. The cost of my marker is not in question - of course, it's going to cost more. Trying to give someone else props, simply because of the way it looks - I do have a problem with...

I may not have posted pics of the work, but I did in fact post a link to the thread that has some of the work on it.
Ah I see. Didn't catch that part.
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Old 01-01-2009, 12:27 PM #28
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nice

im afraid my fingers can even reach the trigger through the huge grip lol
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:32 PM #29
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Scenario Dreams P90 Conversion is Patent Pending.....

Wonder if granted...How it will play out..........

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Old 01-04-2009, 12:35 AM #30
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Scenario Dreams P90 Conversion is Patent Pending.....

Wonder if granted...How it will play out..........
I wonder, how do you patent taking an airsofft gun and making it a paintball gun?? Not quite the same as a Smart Parts case, now is it?
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:36 AM #31
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I wonder, how do you patent taking an airsofft gun and making it a paintball gun?? Not quite the same as a Smart Parts case, now is it?
I think he makes special boards for them. They have similar code to the UTB, but from the wording on the SD website, they might be different.

You're right, it is different from SP. It's a small business trying to protect himself as opposed to a huge company that steals other people's ideas.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:20 PM #32
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Its actually the process of converting an airsoft marker to paintball. I don't care about smaller companies doing it. but if a large company does it, they would owe me a licensing fee. But any large company would just make thier own shells. Its more to protect myself from other companies.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:12 PM #33
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Originally Posted by Damonwill View Post
Its actually the process of converting an airsoft marker to paintball. I don't care about smaller companies doing it. but if a large company does it, they would owe me a licensing fee. But any large company would just make thier own shells. Its more to protect myself from other companies.
Ah I stand corrected. Like I said though, small company trying to protect himself.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:21 PM #34
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where can iget one of these lol
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:51 PM #35
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Wink

Gotcha. Thanks for the input. Makes alot of sense, esp. with SP lurkers, trying to stea.. I mean "drum up" new ideas.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:12 AM #36
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Originally Posted by Damonwill View Post
Its actually the process of converting an airsoft marker to paintball. I don't care about smaller companies doing it. but if a large company does it, they would owe me a licensing fee. But any large company would just make thier own shells. Its more to protect myself from other companies.
No offense to you but I don't think you invented modding airsoft bodies to put a paintball gun inside of. Trying to patent work that others pioneered isn't very moral or ethical on your part. Smells a lot like what Smart Parts has tried to do. I guess after they did it to you and your T-Board, you figure if you can't beat them, join them huh?

Plus your argument doesn't make much sense. No large company is going to mod existing airsoft guns. They are going to fab their own shells.

Your patent serves no other purpose than to put someone like Warcowboy or any other small business man out of business (or pay you a fee) for trying to make a living at modding airsoft guns to take paintball internals.

Now I don't have a dog in the fight about who does better mods. I'm just really turned off by the fact you would try and patent something like this when you know good and well you are trying to profit off the inventions and work others pioneered. And to clarify another point, I'm not claiming Warcowboy invented this either. I've actually seen people doing this type of thing for years in various forums and I don't think anyone one person can or should try to lay claim to this and patent it because this type of modding is a collaborative effort in the community with modders sharing ideas, information and techniques. At the same time, I have no problem with you or Warcowboy or anyone else trying to make a living selling these mods but it is distasteful you (or anyone else) would try to patent this.

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Old 02-18-2009, 11:55 AM #37
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No offense to you but I don't think you invented modding airsoft bodies to put a paintball gun inside of. Trying to patent work that others pioneered isn't very moral or ethical on your part. Smells a lot like what Smart Parts has tried to do. I guess after they did it to you and your T-Board, you figure if you can't beat them, join them huh?

Plus your argument doesn't make much sense. No large company is going to mod existing airsoft guns. They are going to fab their own shells.

Your patent serves no other purpose than to put someone like Warcowboy or any other small business man out of business (or pay you a fee) for trying to make a living at modding airsoft guns to take paintball internals.

Now I don't have a dog in the fight about who does better mods. I'm just really turned off by the fact you would try and patent something like this when you know good and well you are trying to profit off the inventions and work others pioneered. And to clarify another point, I'm not claiming Warcowboy invented this either. I've actually seen people doing this type of thing for years in various forums and I don't think anyone one person can or should try to lay claim to this and patent it because this type of modding is a collaborative effort in the community with modders sharing ideas, information and techniques. At the same time, I have no problem with you or Warcowboy or anyone else trying to make a living selling these mods but it is distasteful you (or anyone else) would try to patent this.
Did you actually READ what a wrote?? I said "I don't care about smaller companies doing it". Warcowboy would be a smaller company.

And your comment of "No large company is going to mod existing airsoft guns" sounds amazingly like "But any large company would just make thier own shells"

The provisional patent I have filed is so that if a larger company files a patent for an airsoft to paintball conversion, THEY CAN'T SUE ME. Which is even more amazingly like "Its more to protect myself from other companies".

So I'm going to answer my own questions by saying "NO, you didn't ready what I wrote".


And your reply would be.......?
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:20 PM #38
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You didn't specify this was a provisional patent. That does change things a bit.

But at the same time I don't think your argument holds water because as you said yourself no large company would ever do this. So what is the point of filing a provisional patent. A large company would go the IC B-5 route and make their own shells in order to mass produce conversions or conversion kits. So your rationale by your own admission doesn't make sense.

But I think what is really going on here is you are trying to protect your business from anyone else getting "large".

Are you saying that if for instance your mod business stalls and Warcowboy's takes off to where he is employing several people to work on his conversions and he's selling dozens and dozens a month and making it a big business, that he is safe from you going for a full patent and suing him?

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Old 02-18-2009, 12:43 PM #39
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You didn't specify this was a provisional patent. That does change things a bit.

But at the same time I don't think your argument holds water because as you said yourself no large company would ever do this. So what is the point of filing a provisional patent. A large company would go the IC B-5 route and make their own shells in order to mass produce conversions or conversion kits. So your rationale by your own admission doesn't make sense.

But I think what is really going on here is you are trying to protect your business from anyone else getting "large".

Are you saying that if for instance your mod business stalls and Warcowboy's takes off to where he is employing several people to work on his conversions and he's selling dozens and dozens a month and making it a big business, that he is safe from you going for a full patent and suing him?
Proof of prior art is all you need to protect yourself (and a good lawyer of course).
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:45 PM #40
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Again, I stated an example as to why I did this. To protect myself from anther company doing a patent and coming after me to licensing.

If Warcowboy hit it big and I ended up in the crapper, I would be happy for Warcowboy. I'd only have myself to blame for failing. Perhaps you have delt with others in the business world that believe in never blaming themselves for failure. I believe in accountability. If I fail, its my own fault. And again, it Warcowboy was to grow so big, he wouldn't be using the airsoft shells anymore. He'd have his own. Or atleast that's what a good business person would do. Its what I would/will do it I ever grow this portion of my business large enough.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:47 PM #41
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Proof of prior art is all you need to protect yourself (and a good lawyer of course).
I have to disagree. And so does my Patent Lawyer. Prior art doesn't hold up in court without a provisional patent filing. Its about as useful as a web patent or a mail patent.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:50 PM #42
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That is true. A full patent would take a lot more proof to show you really invented something and weren't just trying to capitalize off the fruits of all the other modders our there who have posted how they've done things.

He's right in that he's protecting himself from anyone else patenting this idea. But what is left unsaid and is the Elephant in the room is that he's more "protecting" himself from someone like Warcowboy (or any other modder) from taking this big time.

Again you contradict yourself. If not large company would ever do this or someone like Warcowboy who got "big enough" would fab their own shells then what exactly is the point.

But what ultimately rubs me the wrong way is your attempt to patent something that wasn't your invention or idea to begin with. That fact that you could be successful at it doesn't speak well of the patent process.

I'm not going to debate this any longer if you want to leave it alone. I just wanted to express my opinion about it and get it out there.

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