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Old 10-06-2008, 06:27 PM #22
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I should add.... if the same reff makes multiple mistakes, changes will be made to the reffing staff that will hopefully fix the problem which is what occured yesterday.
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:43 PM #23
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:50 PM #24
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A change is needed for points given to reffing. A team that reffs should have to reff the level in which they play. Example if a team plays Level 2 they should have to reff level 2 in order to recieve points for reffing. Reffing Saturday and still being able to play Sunday is just not right. It is not right they have already gotten points for there Level 2 team. IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE RULES! If you were able to do this I applaud you because u got the best of both worlds. Points and a chance to take prizes for the same Level and tourney.

Another thing if your going to give points for reffing then u Dan need to take a list at the captains meeting or reffing meeting and list everyone that is there, so that way people that are reffing are there ALL day. If your not there in the morning SORRY.
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:59 PM #25
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:07 PM #26
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Dan -

I like your event, your concept and what you are trying to do. I suggest you try to hire one set crew to go to all your events and ref. Make the host field help with compensation for these crews and get your paint sponsor to pony up decent paint for that team to practice with. Pay for their hotel, feed them and give them $100 a day and get the paint sponsor to donate a skid at the end of the series provided they meet whatever requirements you set. Get a team that isn't going to play in your event to do it. Anytime the event promoter has to get out on the field and ref because the ref'ing is that questionable that is a problem. You are trying hard to put on a good series in a time when the economy is making it difficult for players to play. Keep your chin up and keep trying.
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:11 PM #27
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1. APPA= Great Idea
2. 1 open player or D2 player (dont know how it would be officially classified) per L2 roster= Great Idea
3. Distinct sound starting game= Great Idea
4. Teams not allowed to play home field events= Great idea but think the averge ref points should go along with it. Why penalize them for reffing if they cant play the event at the home field. I think they should get points and the point average scale would be great.
5. Game times on score sheet=Great Idea
6. Official Ultimate for each event= Good idea if you can find somebody.
Things I Think People Would Like
Pretty much have it all covered.

1. Regulation Field Sizes. If teams are playing PSP events and using the MPS as practice why not make all events PSP Regulation size. 150 long X 125 wide. Its not very much work at all for fields to stake that out. We just did it to our field and it cost us a total of 5 bucks for rope and 10 minutes to stake it all out.

Just my two cents. Cant wait for the 2009 season.
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:21 PM #28
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yeah, if a team is reffing an event, they should not be able to just ref one day, recieve the points, and then turn around and be able to play the event the next day as well. i agree with most of the ideas on here like different sounds for starting the game if two fields are up, set field size. as far as paint, i dont know if it was the same at every event, but this one, if you had leftover paint in a box you hadnt opened yet, they would give you money back. the fields need to make money too hosting these events, so you should have to use the paint from day of at the event.
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:03 PM #29
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Originally Posted by PaintballTourney2 View Post
You are missing the point. You cannot have that rule because every game will be replayed!

I tell you what….

You guys put on your own series or hold your own tournament and have that rule. And when your reffing staff makes a bad call (Newsflash! Every team who loses a game claims that a bad call was made during that game!!!), then you will understand my position!

Also answer the following questions…

1. Name one competitive sport that doesn’t have a bad call every now and then. Point being… everyone makes bad calls including you and myself.
2. Name one competitive sport (that doesn’t have instant replay) that when a bad call is made, the game or play is replayed. I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

I know your mad at the call… trust me, I was upset when I heard the call was made myself. But there is nothing that can be done about it after the fact. That is going back to the basics of paintball! Once you are pulled, no matter how bad the call is, you cannot be put back in. You cannot replay games, because you will NEVER finish a tournament because every game will be replayed because like I said before, every losing team claims that there was a bad call made during that game! My only words of advice…. And don’t take this offensively…. Is if you can’t accept a bad call every now and then, consider taking up a non competitive sport.
of course, i understand.
but i think that rule should be there, but under head reff discretion.
is that possible?
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:16 PM #30
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o that way people that are reffing are there ALL day. If your not there in the morning SORRY
Jordan... I checked on what you brought to me on Sunday and you were wrong. All the players were there the entire day. If fact, after I put faces with names I remember seeing a majority of the team when I arrived at the field at 6:45AM. Not to mention, according to your statement F5 wouldn't have gotten reffing points in previous seasons because you showed up late... so then what, would your rule change??

Like I said at the event... points for reffing has been around since the season originated 5 years ago. Now all of a sudden it is a big deal??

Quote:
A team that reffs should have to reff the level in which they play. Example if a team plays Level 2 they should have to reff level 2 in order to recieve points for reffing.
Sounds good on paper, but this doesn't work all the time.... I couldn't even tell you how many times where I had a team come to me and tell me that they don't want a certain team reffing them because they are of the same level and they are concerned with biased reffing. This mainly happens on Saturday between L3 and L4 but the point is, I can't put that rule into effect because it causes even more problems.

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Dan -

I like your event, your concept and what you are trying to do. I suggest you try to hire one set crew to go to all your events and ref. Make the host field help with compensation for these crews and get your paint sponsor to pony up decent paint for that team to practice with. Pay for their hotel, feed them and give them $100 a day and get the paint sponsor to donate a skid at the end of the series provided they meet whatever requirements you set. Get a team that isn't going to play in your event to do it. Anytime the event promoter has to get out on the field and ref because the ref'ing is that questionable that is a problem. You are trying hard to put on a good series in a time when the economy is making it difficult for players to play. Keep your chin up and keep trying.
Chris! Thank you for your comments. I am particulary interested in those such as yourself and field owners who actually put on events. You guys have the edge in knowing the cause and effect of everything.

I have thought about this many times about getting a full time traveling reffing crew. The problem is, I don't know how I would pay for them. I not about to pay them out of my pocket because if you saw my profit from these events, you would probably ask yourself why I have done this for so long.... And I don't know if fields are willing to pay for them considering the overhead they already have. Most of the fields who provide their own refs pay their staff back by sponsoring them at future events, or free paint or entry to their field in the future, etc. Nothing really that is out of their pocket immediately.

Again, thanks for your comments and I'll look into it... I just don't know if it will work. That is why I brought up just the ultimate.... that I think is affordable.

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Not doable at every event

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1. Regulation Field Sizes. If teams are playing PSP events and using the MPS as practice why not make all events PSP Regulation size. 150 long X 125 wide. Its not very much work at all for fields to stake that out. We just did it to our field and it cost us a total of 5 bucks for rope and 10 minutes to stake it all out.
Not all the fields have the real-state to make their fields PSP regulation size. Nor do all fields have the bunkers to lay out a PSP field.

The comment about buying a field (Sup Air Ball is not going to donate a 09 XBAll field.... I guarantee you that) and taking it to every event and setting it up just isn't a logical option. I said it jokingly and didn't think anyone would take it seriously but it would require spending thousands of dollars on the field, spending thousands of dollars on a truck and tailor to transport it, many man hours on my end maintaining/cleaning the field, etc. I know a team said they would do it for every event.... I am not about to ask a team to be responsible for that.

On the flip side of things, If a field purchased or had a X-Ball field and was willing to donate to those fields who didn't have a x-ball field for an event, i would be willing to give that team free entry into an event. That would need to be worked out between the field and the host field though as far as transporting, cleaning, setting up, tearing down, etc.


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yeah, if a team is reffing an event, they should not be able to just ref one day, recieve the points, and then turn around and be able to play the event the next day as well.
Changing what has been working for years isn't that easy. There are some many other situations that come up.

Lets take event 5 for example... EA couldn't ref on Sunday because of a situation that I'm not going to get into. With them not being able to ref on Sunday, why then would they ref on Saturday and not receive anything for it? The probably wouldn't have and then where would the field have gotten their reffs from?

If I listen to your suggestions then I will have the same situations next season when that new rule passes about teams not playing an event at a field they are sponsored by.... if a team isn't able to play on sunday and not receive points by reffing on saturday, why then would they ref?
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:17 PM #31
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Originally Posted by chuckie303 View Post
of course, i understand.
but i think that rule should be there, but under head reff discretion.
is that possible?
No, not going to happen.

Tell you what... you email field owners and tournament promoters who host tournaments about being able to replay games because of a bad call... tell me what they say. I would bet 100 to 1, they would probably laugh and say no.
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:37 PM #32
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[quote=BigJT;Another thing if your going to give points for reffing then u Dan need to take a list at the captains meeting or reffing meeting and list everyone that is there, so that way people that are reffing are there ALL day. If your not there in the morning SORRY.[/QUOTE]



Who knows when your Ref's will show up hung over and disappear to Mc Donalds for an hour and a half!!! Good Call Jordan
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:07 PM #33
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if a team refs a full day, which ea did on saturday (since that is the issue being brought up) they should recieve reffing points.

i think this should be the target with that issue, i think a team should not ref a level higher than they play (exception level 2). level 4 teams shouldn't ref level 1 games.

to clear up the things that wern't clear.....

if a game ends on a major penalty i think they team that was the victim of the penalty should recieve full points or at the very least the flag hang.

and the other, i think a player should just be eliminated at the end if the game if he is found with an inobvious hit.

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:12 PM #34
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if a team refs a full day, which ea did on saturday they should recieve reffing points.
That is different than what I'm hearing from your team / sister team.... I'm confused as to what the general consensus is from your team.

Quote:
i think a team should not ref a level higher than they play (exception level 2). level 4 teams shouldn't ref level 1 games.
The problem with that statement is new reffs will not get the reffing experience they need. I'm all for non experienced reffs on the field on any level as long as they are near someone with experience.

Another problem with your statement is I shouldn't have reffed L2 and L1 yesterday since I'm technically a L3 player. Waite, that isn't a problem... I like that! LOL.

Dan
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:22 PM #35
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HAHA... I was only late for one event that I reffed and the other I showed up for the captains meeting and left because I was throwing up, but I do recall after taking something I came back and went right back onto the field.

Wow... You cant be so much as WRONG dan if you dont recall I reffed for 2 days. You cant even bring that up. Go You AGAIN!

You should really take critisism instead of getting deffensive and saying things that really dont apply.

Regardless of people being there or not in which you say, it would still be a good idea to get a list of names that are reffing Correct?

When points in a series are close everyone is going to be looking at everything so they can make sure everything stays fair. If they see something that is not fair they are going to bring it up to you. Paintball is expensive is what it all boils down to.

Say what you wish George, as most of it is bull**** and offensive, but you know as well as I know who and how many of the reffs showed up hung over. Dan dont you recall one of the events? Wasnt it High Performance of last season or how bout Lawrence? People really shouldnt say things when other things can come back to bite them in the ***.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:28 PM #36
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APPA is a great idea.
Also, with game altering calls, its a call guy. **** happens all the time NPPL and PSP. It just happens.
The call happened to me btw, and you know what? No one got hurt is all Im concerned about. Sure I was really pissed, but i cooled down and released **** happens and that there are worse things than a bad call.

Id suggest starting horns for sure on the field bc damn is it hard to hear those reffs on a windy day.
Another thing Id suggest is a waiver stating that you have read the rules accordingly and that one the paper is signed, then that is it.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:30 PM #37
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if a team refs a full day, i think they should get reffing points, it would be preferred that the same reffing crew refs the whole event, but in order to define "reffing" one full day i think covers it.

i want expereinced refs, so i guess it would be up to the field owners discreation, hopefully if they choose to have refs of a lower divisoin ref, they have it set up so that they are not making the majority of the calls on the field....
refs that know the rule book and are experienced enough to make routine calls routine. i guess what i stated was more of a rule of thumb.

what i don't want to see is a bunch of inexperienced refs trying to ref for points, and the field being refed by guys who aren't used to 5man paintball, who aren't willing to jump inbetween the lanes, or who are not able to make the close calls (big moves, game changing moves) when guys are on both sides of the X or both playing the 50 snake.

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:36 PM #38
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Yes we are sister teams, but not always think alike, just come out to our practices . But we still want and strive for both getting fair treatment, if one of us see's something or hears something that could in terms hurt the other we are going to bring it up. My words are my words, not always ryans.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:45 PM #39
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so much as WRONG dan if you dont recall I reffed for 2 days. You
I never said you didn't reff two days. All I said is if I applied your rule, you would have let your team down that day you showed up late. Don't read into more than what it is. Just stating the obvious.

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You should really take critisism instead of getting deffensive and saying things that really dont apply.
I am defensive because of they way you brought this to me yesterday and they way you argued with me yesterday. Then once I thought it was all put to rest, you bring it up again.

You were asking me to change something that has been around for years.... and what really upset me is the fact that it is ONLY a big deal because it affected your "sister teams". Then when you realized I wasn't going to change the rule to benefit your team, you come up with a story (without proof) about how the team that reffed wasn't there until late that morning or the afternoon. I told you I would look into it, and after talking with the field I learned that the entire roster was all there and after I looked up their faces/names, I remember seeing most of their faces at 6:45 that Saturday morning.

I got defensive because of your comment, "so that way people that are reffing are there ALL day. If your not there in the morning SORRY" when in fact they were all there and you just made assumptions on what you thought you knew but was wrong.

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Regardless of people being there or not in which you say, it would still be a good idea to get a list of names that are reffing Correct?
You are correct, and I have a list of names of all those who reffed who received series points. Again, your making assumptions of what you think you know, but are wrong.

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When points in a series are close everyone is going to be looking at everything so they can make sure everything stays fair. If they see something that is not fair they are going to bring it up to you. Paintball is expensive is what it all boils down to.
I agree with you 100%. But what is fair is not changing the rule at the last event of the season just to benefit your sister team like you wanted me to do yesterday.

I'm all for discussing this concept in a polite manner but you must think logically... for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction (Newton's Law). You can't tell a team that they can't play on Sunday and they must ref on Saturday, and oh by the way, you don't get series points because they can't ref or play on Sunday. It just doesn't work and that is why I am defensive in this rule that has been around for several years!

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Dan dont you recall one of the events? Wasnt it High Performance of last season or how bout Lawrence? People really shouldnt say things when other things can come back to bite them in the ***.
I do remember that! That was a fun night!!! The difference is though, I am over the age of 21 and I wasn't late to my obligations.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:56 PM #40
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ill be the ultimate
i charge 4 million per event
is that in foreign currency?
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:01 PM #41
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I enjoyed the 3 MPS events we got in on. Yes some reffing errors were made in the past but as has been said we'll get over it. We had an issue at event #3 where a players was shot out at the first of the game ref didn't pull him and he was the last player standing and killed me and my team mate yet they got credit for the win and we were told by the head L-4 ref that there was nothing he could do about it now after the round was over. Eventhough we brought it to his attention before we signed the sheet all he said was that I should have yelled louder. I told him I yelled 5+times for a paint check on the kids head and that I was concetrating on the other back corner. But yeah I was mad as hell but chalk it up to learning experience. I know we are only a Level 4 team and had a **** load of fun and watching the higher levels and them coming over and giving tips and suggestions was cool. We met alot of cool people and definately look forward to next years MPS '09 series. Hopefully everything gets worked out over the winter break.

Craig Alexander

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Old 10-06-2008, 10:15 PM #42
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Heres a good change!
And this was suggested to me a long time ago from girls playing out at my old field and my girlfriend not wanting to use the bathrooms.

Get a female only port-o-pot.
Guys, we all bring our female companions along and we know about the girl anatomy, and well also how they view them as gross.
I had to take my girlfriend right in the middle of the toruney to a QuickTime to use the bathroom.lol
By doing this, this will also atract a better family atmosphere.
Thus, pb grows and so does MPS
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