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Old 02-06-2017, 11:49 AM #1
ballashockcalla001
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CS1 Shoot Down

I have recently been experiencing an issue with my CS1 which consists of the marker losing a great deal of velocity as it begins to ramp (or what I call shoot down).

If I pull the trigger once, shooting a single ball at a time, the velocity is perfectly fine. It only begins to shoot down and lose velocity after ramping is engaged.

The funny thing is, when I disengage the ASA POPS, relieving the marker of all air, and then re-engage the POPS - it shoots just fine. No shoot down at all. Over the past few weeks of playing, I have had times where I would only have to turn off/on the POPS once at the start of the day and be fine for the rest of the day. And other times, I have had to turn the POPS on/off during game play on multiple occasions throughout the day to keep it from shooting down while ramping.

Here is what I have done so far to try an fix the issue:
  • I first changed my battery. (I have done this twice now, so I do not think this is the cause of the issue)
  • I clean my bolt and re-lube (lightly) after every weekend of play.
  • A week ago, I took my internal reg inside of the grip frame (which is connected to the POPS ASA) and cleaned it off, then re-lubed the o-rings and internal o-ring seat. I also cleaned and lightly lubed the piston during this time.
  • I have lightly messed with the exterior dwell that is located above the trigger, but I have left it at the halfway position.

The only thing I can think of that I have no checked is my solenoid. I guess it could have a small amount of dirt in it that could be causing this issue? I am going to take it apart today and clean/re-lube as well.

Note: I use PlanetEclipseTV's youtube channel to do any cleaning or taking apart of my CS1. I also am running a Ninja SL77 V2 reg with output around 550. (My POPS ASA is not too tough to engaged.)

Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated. I am on pbnation a lot, so if I left out anything - I will be responding promptly.

THANK YOU!
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:13 PM #2
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Hi,

Glad to see you using the video's! Perfect!

I would check the solenoid spool, as you suggest. It could be a small piece of swarf that has broken off a cross-drilled port somewhere and drifting around inside the spool or solenoid body, so check all the ports and gaskets as well as check the solenoid spool for debris.

When you stripped the reg in the frame, did you replace or at least lubricate the 008 o-ring inside the reg body (the silver part that looks like a little turret)?

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Old 02-06-2017, 02:35 PM #3
ballashockcalla001
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Jack -

Thank you for your quick response! (I was hoping to hear from you.)

I did lube the small 008 o-ring inside of the silver reg encasement body as it was quite dirty. The reg & piston had never been previously cleaned before; the old lubricant on the reg o-rings (including the small 008) along with the piston was a chalky mess. It was like the old lube had dried up over time, after a decent amount of shots, and turned to a dust/chalk like, light grey mess. The reg and piston were covered in this stuff before I cleaned and re-lubed everything. The one thing I did not do to the reg was removed (unscrew) it from the ASA POPS bottom piece. In your video, you simply unscrew the outer shell of the reg with only your fingers. Mine is screwed on super tight. I would have to use a rubber wrench and washcloth in order to remove without scratching the metal. I think the poppet is located in there as well. SO I did not get to clean/re-lube this part of the reg. Should I do this too?

I will give you a performance update after I have cleaned out and re-lubed the solenoid and it's gaskets.

Thanks for your help sir.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:08 PM #4
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try a different tank
some people have reported problems withe the v2 pro ninja reg and the cs1
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:50 PM #5
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Tank reg is what I would look at, too. Have someone else try your tank & see if they get shootdown. Try someone else's tank & see if that alleviates the problem. If neither of those are options, disassemble & service (clean & lube, replace seals, etc.) your tank reg.
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:20 PM #6
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The chalky white powder you are describing sounds like the telltale sign of moisture getting into your tank. When you relubed your bolt engine last did you notice the same chalky powder on the bolt engine? This happened to a friend of mine awhile back with his Geo 3.5 and any gun he tried using with a tank he had. Would clean and relube his entire gun and it would shoot fine for a pod or two than start dropping off. Issue was that some moisture had found its way into his tank and produced the chalky white powder you described. He had to take his tank reg out and dump the powder out of his tank.

I'd recommend trying a different tank to rule this possibility out. This is Andrew from the Polar Bears and I've got an extra tank so if you need to borrow one for testing let me know.
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:29 PM #7
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What's up Andrew - this is Austin Hood. I will hit you up on fb too.

I have two tanks and they are both filled to 4k, so I will be testing the tank theory out this evening.

One tank is the SL 77 with Pro V2 I mentioned above and the 2nd tank is a 68/45 Pure Energy (not sure if it HP or LP.. ?) The PE works just fine, so I should have the resources to see if this is the issue or rule it out.

I have also noticed efficiency issues as well which could be due to my tank as you guys stated. How many pods should I be getting off 4000 PSI on a 77?
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:43 AM #8
ballashockcalla001
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So I ran 5 pods thru my CS1 yesterday evening using two different tanks (SL77 w/ Pro V2 & Pure Energy 68/45). I switched tanks after every pod. I did not experience any shoot down issues the entire time. I even turned the POPS on and off a couple times per pod just to see if anything would happen. I had about 1000 PSI left in my SL77, and I wanted to empty it out so I could take the reg off and inspect the inside of the bottle for debris. *I know I'm not supposed to dry fire the CS1, but I did until the SL tank was completely empty of air. Next, I took my internal reg and piston out after firing just to check the condition of the lube I had put on them a couple weeks ago, and I came across the exact same chalky material that I had discovered the first time servicing my internal reg and piston. The chalky residue was coating my reg and the small 008 o-ring located in the small hole on top of the reg was dirty with this same residue only more black colored. The piston was also a little chalky. I wiped the piston and reg clean and installed a new, thin layer of PE lube to the reg o-rings, 008 o-ring and piston. I removed my bolt and noticed that it also had a small amount of chalky residue on it, so I did the same - cleaned and re-lubed. I still have yet to take apart my solenoid.

I think GrimSlayer's hypothesis could be the issue. I am going to take my SL77 tank apart today and check inside of the bottle for moisture and/or residue.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:14 AM #9
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Just wanted to post an update:

I took the pro v2 reg off the SL77 bottle and cleaned them both. There was a small amount of chalky debris inside the bottle and the reg. I also didn't realize I had all 3 shims in the reg still, so I removed two of them (now at 550 psi output pressure). I shot 2 cases at practice yesterday and didn't have one issue. The CS1 shot better than it ever has before. I think taking the 2 shims out of the reg really made a difference on shot smoothness (and obviously efficiency).

Shoot down problem solved.
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