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Old 11-05-2014, 08:41 PM #1
Ebbed
 
 
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Geo 3.1+IVCore not cycling properly?

I went out Sunday to play with my Geo3.1 with IV core and soft tipped bolt, was a cool day but definitely not cold (about 6 degrees). I have used the gun extensively with the IV Core and have not had a single problem until now. My SFR is not completely closed, I am able to shoot aprox. 16bps in its current position. I want to point out the gun was properly lubbed, and there was no visible damage to any part of the marker.

About mid-way through the day I noticed my eyes were faulting (making the square's and not round brackets) and capping my rate of fire. In the staging area I took off the hopper and everything seemed fine. I turned off the gun and the fault went away. I checked the eyes with my finger, they seemed to be working properly so I suited up and went out. Once I was on the field it happened again. I would turn the gun on and off and it would be fine but as soon as it started cycling with paint I would have the fault.

Two or so games later the gun stopped firing when he trigger was initially pulled. I could hear a soft "puff" sound (like the solenoid would move) but it definitely wasn't a complete cycle, and would not fire a ball. The next time I pulled the trigger it would fire. Then it would puff, then fire, and so on. This is the first problem I have had with the marker and would love to know where to start looking.

My best guess is its not cycling properly, and the eye fault is caused by the bolt not returning properly, and the same thing goes with the "puff" problem.
The week before I went out I took the o-rings off the bolt to clean the crap that was wedged between the o-ring groove and the o-ring itself. I may have put them on backwards. If that's the case what size goes where? I'll simply replace them with new ones form the spare parts bag.
I read a previous post with similar problems to mine where Jack suggested replacing the rear can o-ring, do you think that might help me too?

P.S. No I did not try a new battery YET. but obviously will be next time I go. I would be surprised if it was the battery as I replaced it maybe a month ago and still shows 3/4 full
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:20 PM #2
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im gonna say 99% its the battery....

eye faults couple with cycling issues and you saying everything seemed to be working fine is almost certainlythe battery not being able to provide enough power for the board, noid and eyes all at the same time.

try the new brand name battery before anything else
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:34 AM #3
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^^^This that happened to my geo it was puffing and saw the battery was dying; switched it and it was like new
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:39 AM #4
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It sounds like you had two different issue.
The eyes defaulting sound like you have grease or paint or fluff blocking the eyes. Remove the eye covers and clean out the holes in the body and wipe the front of the eyes.
What you will always see is that when you turn on the gun the eyes will show as working. Only when you fire the gun will it default. It needs to see a full cycle of the ball, bolt moving forward, and bolt moving backwards for each shot for the eyes to know everything is working. When you first switch on it doesn't have all that info. You need to fire the gun for it to see if everything is working.
The issue later in the day sounds like the battery. Especially at those kinds of temps. The battery performance drops WAY off when they get to that temperature. As we always say, use the best quality batteries you can, every time. Keep a spare with you so you can swap on the day of you see that kind of a problem again.
I'd say your o-rings are in the right order. It wouldn't have fired at all if they were the wrong way around.
And as a rule of thumb, if you have cycling problems, first thig to do is open the SFR all the way up and see if that helps.
Jack
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:08 PM #5
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Well since that post I had not used the Geo and stuck to the more reliable Ego, until last weekend.
The exact same thing happened. I was able to crono in, then fire off about a hopper and a pod then I started to experience the exact same issues I had in the fall. The temperature was also around 6 degrees. The difference this time was I:
- put the blanking SFR plug in (the one thats max flow always)
- increased the solenoid power from low to medium
- put in a brand new, brand name battery.

I brought the marker to a Eclpise tech that was at the event who concluded:
- the tip was seated on the bolt correctly.
- the eyes were clean.
- the marker had been correctly lubricated.

his response to me was it was likely the weather and that it seemed like my eyes were "slow to respond" and suggested I try another new battery.

All that being said.
I'm going out next weekend, and a teammate has my Ego I will have to use my Geo and would REALLY like it if I was able to use it. We are expecting temperatures around 12 degrees can I expect my marker to perform at that temperature? I bought YET ANOTHER brand new battery. This time A disposable Lithium 9v.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:52 PM #6
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If it keeps doing the same thing with new battery it is the solenoid

Late 3.1s and on can have solenoid a that don't work that good

This happened to me with a late 3.1 and a early 3.5 that had a bolt labeled "gsl"

If the problem presists contact pe and they will send you a new solenoid
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:06 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatmanLiera View Post
If it keeps doing the same thing with new battery it is the solenoid

Late 3.1s and on can have solenoid a that don't work that good

This happened to me with a late 3.1 and a early 3.5 that had a bolt labeled "gsl"

If the problem presists contact pe and they will send you a new solenoid
This.

Unfortunately we do get a number of solenoids that fail in the field. We are doing everything we can here to double and triple check the solenoids and working with MAC Valves USA to rectify the solution.

With you having a 3.1 it is definitely from a time before we did such rigorous testing of the solenoids so it could be that the one you have is bad.

Where abouts are you in the world??

Jack

EDIT: Just out of interest, have you tried the all metal bolt? And/or replacing the tip on the bolt? Re-reading from the top it could all be connected to the soft tip bolt.
Failing that, have you tried it all with the stock core back in it? There is actually a load of things to try before we jump on the solenoid here.
Also, yes, replace the rear can o-ring. If you have your old propshaft, take the rear o-ring off that and use that to replace the rear can o-ring. It is slightly thicker than the standard #20 and will seal better.

Last edited by Jack Wood : 04-15-2015 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:42 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
This.

Unfortunately we do get a number of solenoids that fail in the field. We are doing everything we can here to double and triple check the solenoids and working with MAC Valves USA to rectify the solution.

With you having a 3.1 it is definitely from a time before we did such rigorous testing of the solenoids so it could be that the one you have is bad.

Where abouts are you in the world??

Jack

EDIT: Just out of interest, have you tried the all metal bolt? And/or replacing the tip on the bolt? Re-reading from the top it could all be connected to the soft tip bolt.
Failing that, have you tried it all with the stock core back in it? There is actually a load of things to try before we jump on the solenoid here.
Also, yes, replace the rear can o-ring. If you have your old propshaft, take the rear o-ring off that and use that to replace the rear can o-ring. It is slightly thicker than the standard #20 and will seal better.
I've had this same issue occur twice. I switched to the hard tip bolt and the problem seemed to go away until the very last point of my next weekend of practice. Changing the battery seemed to fix it, though the battery I was using showed full on the LCD.

Will Eclipse have anyone at the NCPA nationals this weekend? I'd really like to at least have it looked at to determine if I have a bad solenoid or not or if I'm just doing something wrong.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:40 PM #9
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I am in Ontario (Southern), Canada.

So would you recommend I use the IV core with the all metal bolt and the swapped out o-ring, OR the original core.
Do you have any recommendations for solenoid power, dwell settings?
SFR up and new battery are given at this point.

Worth noting.
I don't *THINK* it's a noid issue. Would that not be a "it doesn't work at all" sort of situation? I was able to chronograph consistently and fling a hopper + a pod before this started happening again.

Also, I hear no leaking at all, but will swap the o-ring out if instructed to do so.

Lastly, myself and the tech. I refer to as "cupcake" (he was eating a cupcake while teching my gun). Both concluded the rubber tip was secure and in good condition.

This weekend the forecast is around 12-13 degrees.

Last edited by Ebbed : 04-15-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:42 PM #10
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I went out today and the marker shot good with the third new battery, and IV core with steel bolt for about 600 shots. Around that time the same problem started happening again. it was around 13 degrees. My solenoid was at medium power and my dwell and FSDO was stock.
I swapped out the IV core to the 3 core and all of a sudden my ROF increased (uncapped ramp) and I had to turn my velocity down (it went up to 310 from 280 with the IV core). I was able to play the rest of the day without issue even putting the SFR down and the solenoid power back down to low, but that was for aprox. 400 balls. I'm losing confidence in the reliability of this marker.

Hopefully the new information might help to pinpoint the problem.

I plan to keep this thread alive till i can take the marker out for a day of play without having any issues.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:03 PM #11
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steel bolt
The bolt is not steel.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:35 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebbed View Post
I went out today and the marker shot good with the third new battery, and IV core with steel bolt for about 600 shots. Around that time the same problem started happening again. it was around 13 degrees. My solenoid was at medium power and my dwell and FSDO was stock.
I swapped out the IV core to the 3 core and all of a sudden my ROF increased (uncapped ramp) and I had to turn my velocity down (it went up to 310 from 280 with the IV core). I was able to play the rest of the day without issue even putting the SFR down and the solenoid power back down to low, but that was for aprox. 400 balls. I'm losing confidence in the reliability of this marker.

Hopefully the new information might help to pinpoint the problem.

I plan to keep this thread alive till i can take the marker out for a day of play without having any issues.
So with the original core in, the gun shot higher velocity, at higher ROF, with the SFR tuned down the solenoid turned down for the rest of the day.

Will, that certainly tells us it is not a solenoid issue.

I suggest we get your IVCore Kit replaced and take it from there.

PM me your email address and we'll arrange to get that taken care of for you.

These guns should be rock solid reliable. We will make sure that is what you end up with so you can go out and play with confidence that your gun is going to work!!

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Old 04-28-2015, 09:33 AM #13
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I feel like the decision to send the IV core in might have been premature and your initial diagnosis of the solenoid may have been spot on.
With the 3 core in the marker this weekend I started to get a leak from between the frame and body right above the grip frame. I just took it apart and found the gaskets look like they are in mint condition. The leak was not coming form the o-ring above the SFR.With the IV core in transit, I'm not sure what to do.

Let me know what you think, again. Sorry to be a bother but I feel a bit up ****s creek without a paddle on this one.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:14 AM #14
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My issues continue.

With the brand new IV core, grease, fifth battery, and tear down of the manifold + secondary spool, and different HPA tank the same issue occurred after aprox. 400 shots.

I sent an email with a video.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:22 AM #15
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I don't wanna sound like an *** jack or anything but I rather wanna give a try at some ideas... You say it was 6 degrees at the time? I wonder if the lube you use may be causing severe bolt stick issues. I wonder if it's so cold that the lube just gums up... And you need a runnier mix of lube... Just a thought. Or if you have the can properly installed as well? I've seen issues with this when people get the iv core and forget to install the can as well .... Also! Check the 10 x 017 nbr70 oring inside the can at the very end. Some paint companies use cloths to dry the paintballs after being made and those fibers can be clung to the balls and if those fibers or dirt or any substance gets on that oring you may experience what you've been experiencing and would make sense since it happens after so many shots, just assuming your paint may be dirty in the most minuscule way to get fibers inside their. I would double check that when it happens.
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Old 07-25-2015, 06:33 PM #16
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I just got a 3.1 with a iv core and had the same exact problem today. I was able to see that the bolt was not cycling back completely and that it would just puff air. Swapped to the hard tip bolt and it worked for maybe 100 shots.
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