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Old 10-15-2008, 07:54 PM #64
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Yea.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:56 PM #65
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ok thanks
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:53 PM #66
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slow twitch muscle fiber grows. it just grows slower and dosent give the eye popping mass that weights do. its the difference in lean muscle and normal muscle. as for saying anything over a few secons is aerobic i have to disagree with you on. im only saying this because i passed out in a 5k from anarobic seizure. anarobic muscle mass builds when the muscles dont have as much oxygen as they need to properly function and the atp cycle produces latic acid. the 200 is a much more anarobically challengeing workout then the 100 because it take time for your muscles to run out of stored air within them.
First, there's no difference between lean muscle and "normal muscle" that you can see with the naked eye. There's slow twitch fibers and fast twitch, neither of which you'd be able to tell the difference between just by looking at someone's legs.
Second, you just contradicted yourself... You said before you'd see more growth by running miles a week, and now you're saying it doesn't do as much as weights do. I'm not trying to undermine you and I respect that you know more about endurance running than I do, but we need to agree that running long distances isn't going to build any appreciable mass or power in your legs.

Lasty, there's a difference between anaerobic exercise and exceeding your lactic acid threshold. No matter what the exercise, even aerobic, you're going to create lactic acid. The two systems don't work independently. If you're running for 5k, you're going to eventually build up enough to the point where you're body can't deal with it. It's going to egventually put you into an anaerobic state, but that doesn't mean you've been in an anaerobic state the entire time.

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that right there is the biggest problem i have with the majority of people that use HIIT. they minimilize the recovery in order to stay at a constant anarobic state which isnt good. your heart needs to relax after the work. running 200's and 400's will get someone in much better shape quicker then running 50's and hundreds. and as a plus itll drop weight quicker which i do belive is the main reason the majority of you use HIIT
And this is where you're misinformed or know people who aren't utilizing it correctly. Between each interval you're down to like 50% intensity, which is about a brisk jog, which is most definately an aerobic activity. And your heart needs a break between HIIT intervals but not in a 5k run that takes much, much, much longer?

And yeah, long distance may drop WEIGHT quicker, but it's been shown in numerous studies in the last few years that the hormonal response to HIIT burns more FAT than distance running does. What good does losing weight do you if you don't look a lot better in the end? Losing fat and maintaining muscle, which HIIT has been shown to do hormonally, is pretty much the main goal for anyone training in order to look better.

Again, I respect your knowledge in endurance sports, but don't try to say it's better at reaching certain goals when it isn't.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:46 AM #67
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Pbmink; I've decided to hold off on actual lifting and try to get my endurance back for the next 3 weeks. I'll probably stop adding mileage tomorrow, when i'm running 6 miles. Any pointers on how to get more endurance over a 3-week period? I have all the time in the world, I work 4 10 hr. days.
just run every day

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First, there's no difference between lean muscle and "normal muscle" that you can see with the naked eye. There's slow twitch fibers and fast twitch, neither of which you'd be able to tell the difference between just by looking at someone's legs.
Second, you just contradicted yourself... You said before you'd see more growth by running miles a week, and now you're saying it doesn't do as much as weights do. I'm not trying to undermine you and I respect that you know more about endurance running than I do, but we need to agree that running long distances isn't going to build any appreciable mass or power in your legs.

Lasty, there's a difference between anaerobic exercise and exceeding your lactic acid threshold. No matter what the exercise, even aerobic, you're going to create lactic acid. The two systems don't work independently. If you're running for 5k, you're going to eventually build up enough to the point where you're body can't deal with it. It's going to egventually put you into an anaerobic state, but that doesn't mean you've been in an anaerobic state the entire time.



And this is where you're misinformed or know people who aren't utilizing it correctly. Between each interval you're down to like 50% intensity, which is about a brisk jog, which is most definately an aerobic activity. And your heart needs a break between HIIT intervals but not in a 5k run that takes much, much, much longer?

And yeah, long distance may drop WEIGHT quicker, but it's been shown in numerous studies in the last few years that the hormonal response to HIIT burns more FAT than distance running does. What good does losing weight do you if you don't look a lot better in the end? Losing fat and maintaining muscle, which HIIT has been shown to do hormonally, is pretty much the main goal for anyone training in order to look better.

Again, I respect your knowledge in endurance sports, but don't try to say it's better at reaching certain goals when it isn't.
im more then likly uninformed on the specifics of HIIT since ive only heard about it on here and didnt really do tomuch reading up on it and went off of what i heard

as for muscle i defintly think that fast twitch take sup more space then slow twitch. i can bence the same as one of the other guys in my weights class with a similar build but my total muscle mass is much lower then his. maybe im just crazy

and i know they dont work independently. just personally i prefer latic acid induced anarobic work over pure anarobic work and think it works better for endurance and muscle development
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:59 AM #68
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And I can agree with you on that last point as well. Your a distance runner, and that type of training is what you need to do to excell. Every goal has a tool that's best suited to reach it.

As for you being able to bench the same as someone who is larger than you, that is actually very common. Strength is somewhat related to muscle mass, but the majority of strength comes from neural connections. You literally LEARN strength. You teach your body how to contract the individual motor units explosively and in harmony with one another to create strength. Now with that said, the bigger motor units you have, the stronger you have to potential to become because there will be more powerful motor units to contract.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:35 PM #69
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And I can agree with you on that last point as well. Your a distance runner, and that type of training is what you need to do to excell. Every goal has a tool that's best suited to reach it.

As for you being able to bench the same as someone who is larger than you, that is actually very common. Strength is somewhat related to muscle mass, but the majority of strength comes from neural connections. You literally LEARN strength. You teach your body how to contract the individual motor units explosively and in harmony with one another to create strength. Now with that said, the bigger motor units you have, the stronger you have to potential to become because there will be more powerful motor units to contract.
so its not were the same strength its that ive been doing it longer?
kinda makes sense since its the same for racing
longer someone has been racing easier it becomes
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:39 PM #70
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Pbmink, should I still drink Protein shakes after running, or will it help at all?
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:47 AM #71
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Originally Posted by WorrGamR2k1 View Post
Pbmink, should I still drink Protein shakes after running, or will it help at all?
i do
and that was the reason i just came in here i need to ask the supplment people some advice
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:55 PM #72
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Pbmink, should I still drink Protein shakes after running, or will it help at all?
i usually do if i run for more than just a warm up or cool down.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:13 PM #73
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so its not were the same strength its that ive been doing it longer?
kinda makes sense since its the same for racing
longer someone has been racing easier it becomes
Maybe not just that you've been doing it longer, but you've learned the lift better, if that makes sense. You've literally trained your muscle to contract harder and more explosively to produce more power. Think of it this way, it's like if your buddy has say, 10 pounds of muscle to your 7 pounds of muscle, but he can only contract 50% of his motor-units at once but you can contract 80% you have more power being generated...
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:30 PM #74
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I wish I had OPs 2 mile time.
I wish I had pbmick's 5k time. All I'd have to do is do the Armstrong Pullup Program for a month and I'd have a high first class pft

Jeez, I think his 5k time is better than half of mine
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:19 PM #75
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Just ran 5 miles in 40 minutes. Horrible? Perhaps. But I'm getting there. I know I'll never be able to get a great time. But I'd like to be able to do a sup-10 minute Mile and a Half. Shouldn't be too hard.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:42 PM #76
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Just ran 5 miles in 40 minutes. Horrible? Perhaps. But I'm getting there. I know I'll never be able to get a great time. But I'd like to be able to do a sup-10 minute Mile and a Half. Shouldn't be too hard.
Averaging an 8 min mile for 5 miles is fairly respectable IMO. It would probably take me about an hour to go 5 miles. 2 miles is about my limit before my endurance takes a dive.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:55 PM #77
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I figure if I'd ran a 30 minute 5 mile i'd have to booking it, so I'll shoot for a sorta realistic 35 minute 5-mile.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:09 PM #78
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I wish I had pbmick's 5k time. All I'd have to do is do the Armstrong Pullup Program for a month and I'd have a high first class pft

Jeez, I think his 5k time is better than half of mine

I get pissed when the cross country runners finish their 2 miles before im done with a mile and a half.


Best way to train for a 2 mile speed run?
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:11 PM #79
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I get pissed when the cross country runners finish their 2 miles before im done with a mile and a half.


Best way to train for a 2 mile speed run?
Run. A lot. And I'm not kidding. Back in high school the track coach would send us off on a 10 mile run, then back to run a few miles running 800ms then walking 400ms. Seemed to work pretty well, went from high sixes my freshman year to high 5s my jr. year. Then I got a job.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:20 PM #80
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jesus christ. thing is, im planning on bulking soon. does the pace i run at affect my cardio workout?
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:23 PM #81
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I was trying to do both, but I could barely walk after doing legs, so I put a hold on bulking. I've also noticed the bodybuilders don't spend near the time on the treadmill that I do. I guess you could probably do it, but I'm not sure how.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:26 PM #82
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thats why after leg days, iwont be running.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:46 AM #83
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Originally Posted by WorrGamR2k1 View Post
Just ran 5 miles in 40 minutes. Horrible? Perhaps. But I'm getting there. I know I'll never be able to get a great time. But I'd like to be able to do a sup-10 minute Mile and a Half. Shouldn't be too hard.
not at all, keep it up and in a month youll be down to running 7 minute miles which is

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jesus christ. thing is, im planning on bulking soon. does the pace i run at affect my cardio workout?
run for 20-30 minutes then lift

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I was trying to do both, but I could barely walk after doing legs, so I put a hold on bulking. I've also noticed the bodybuilders don't spend near the time on the treadmill that I do. I guess you could probably do it, but I'm not sure how.
run then lift, if you lift run you wont run as hard and cardio benifits will be minimilized. but if you run then lift you have a heightned cardio that is then maintained and wont have the negative impact on your legs.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:59 AM #84
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I've just given up an hope of every having a decent run time. I just don't think it'll ever happen. I guess I'm just one of those people that can't run distance fast.
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